[turo]

Well.. Would be good if Nokia would support customers in these kind of cases As these should be tested and clarified in Nokia lot before E90 was on sale (backward compatibility for older communicators..)

[sapporobaby]

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21-Sep-200712:34 PM
turo wrote:
Well.. Would be good if Nokia would support customers in these kind of cases As these should be tested and clarified in Nokia lot before E90 was on sale (backward compatibility for older communicators..)

---

Not the old, "Nokia should have done this or that with the software" argument. As stated several times, Nokia does not make the software. They did not develop it. They do license it though and if the company that develops it changes the way it is formatted or has different versions, Nokia can not directly influence unless of course they are willing to pay for this.

M$ did this with Office 97, when they decided to make it not backwards compatible. Did people blame Dell, or Gateway or Acer for this? No, they blamed M$ as they should be blamed since M$ developed the software in the first place.

[vmoisa]

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21-Sep-200702:05 PM
sapporobaby wrote:
As stated several times, Nokia does not make the software. They did not develop it. They do license it though and if the company that develops it changes the way it is formatted or has different versions, Nokia can not directly influence unless of course they are willing to pay for this.

---

So what you mean is that Nokia has no responsability what so ever to us, the customers, when it comes to software installed in the phones, just because they did not develop it ?

When you buy a computer you have the choice not to buy the OS. Later, you have several choices: Windows, Linux, etc. If you choose Windows, than Microsoft is giving the support for it (including all up-dates via their websites)

Nokia phones comes with only one software, that software cannot be changed, and the support and up-dates are given by Nokia. So the software is entirely their responsibility, as is the hardware of the phone.

I am sorry but your theory does not hold water...

[dom_dom]

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21-Sep-200703:05 PM
sapporobaby wrote:

M$ did this with Office 97, when they decided to make it not backwards compatible. Did people blame Dell, or Gateway or Acer for this? No, they blamed M$ as they should be blamed since M$ developed the software in the first place.

---

M$ Office 97 NOT backward compatible ?????

First time I read this ! I never encountered such a problem with M$ Officie suite ! I'm a fervant user of M$ suite (from 6.0 to 2007).

Again, when you buy a PC, you can give it Linux with OpenOffice suite or out of the box M$ stuff, or ...

You don't buy a mobile, smartphone, PDA, or ... with the same idea.
You need something that will ASAP provide you the full functionality without having to loose your precious time in configuration, reporting problems, trying to discover workaround, looking for soft to could maybe help you in certain case, sharing your experience with other in a forum like we do now, ...

A mobile is to call, if it suite a GPS, then it must help you finding your way, if containing a PIM it should be easy to use, ...

The first one who has to decide what to install, configure, test if OK, ... is in our case NOKIA.

For 899 € he can must provide us GOOD, EASY to use and RELIABLE software and hardware.

Don't ask my father, my wife or my daughter to install, change, configure or ... the E90 !
You get it in your nooze (not yours specific ) !
And they treat you to be "Stupid" having put so much money in such a brol !
This is MY daily exerience !

E90 id a box where software is bundled with the hardware, point barre.

A color printer has to print in color, RED has to be red, ...
Did you ever think you would have to modify the driver to adapt it to your specific needs ?
No a printer has to print, and has to print correctly.
IF not : BACK to the provider.

The E90 is the same.

My impression is : I pass more time to try any new, better configuration options than using it for my business !

NOKIA's reaction I got today is worst than I thaught.
I'm totally disappointed !

Domdom

[sapporobaby]

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21-Sep-200702:30 PM
vmoisa wrote:

So what you mean is that Nokia has no responsability what so ever to us, the customers, when it comes to software installed in the phones, just because they did not develop it ?

When you buy a computer you have the choice not to buy the OS. Later, you have several choices: Windows, Linux, etc. If you choose Windows, than Microsoft is giving the support for it (including all up-dates via their websites)

Nokia phones comes with only one software, that software cannot be changed, and the support and up-dates are given by Nokia. So the software is entirely their responsibility, as is the hardware of the phone.

I am sorry but your theory does not hold water...

---

I said and you can re-read it again. Nokia did not develop it, so they have little to no decision in how it will be migrated from platform to platform. Don't believe me, then give them a call and ask them to support the software and give a solution and see if they don't direct you to the developers website. Hardware issues and Nokia developed software, I agree, they should support, and maintain, but 3rd party software that they license is not their direct responsibility.

You are argument about buying a computer is equally weak. If I install Symantec on my Mac and suddenly my hard drive stops working, who do you think I should call? The developers of the DVD drive, the LED manufacturers, or maybe Apple. Go re-think your argument. This was too easy.

Moderator note: personal comment removed

Message Edited by michaels on 24-Sep-2007 02:10 PM

[sapporobaby]

@dom,

I am still not sure what you problem is, but if I buy a computer and some software bundle is pre-installed, and this software has a problem, I call the software manufacture, not the computer manufacturer. This can't be that hard.

[amanda5]

Glad to see that after a momentary lull, it's business as usual on this Forum.

The situation is quite clear. Consumer buys the product. Vendor makes a profit. Vendor liable. The phone as sold says Nokia on it. If Nokia don't want to take responsibility for any part of the finished retail item, they shouldn't include it. But they do want to include some sort of "office" software because without it, their retail offer looks even worse, so they choose to supply sub-standard, uncompetitive software.

Analogy has been made before re car manufacturing. You buy a Mercedes. Component fails or does not perform. Consumer does not need to know whether Mercedes made the component or not, it's down to Mercedes to fix it.

Nokia, you should be ashamed.

[dom_dom]

sapporobaby

I think arguments are simple :

1. When you buy a PC :
- you have the choice of what soft you want to be installed.
- you receive the distribution of ALL the soft that are installed. This is an legal obligation
- you jknow that a PC is something you will to configure a little bit.

2. When I bought my E90 :
- I did NOT had any kind of choice of what to be already installed or not.
- I did NOT received any software distribution kit (this means there are NO external software in that box)
- It was for sure NOT my idea to loose SOOOO much time with it.


Then E90 and the bundled soft makes only ONE ENTITY.
Again, I repeat, few guys are technical guys capable of configuring, finding workaround, ... for this expensive box !

Domdom

[vmoisa]

As said before, Nokia owns part of the Symbyan, so THEY DO have influence on the software. But they have choosen to put the cheapest software on the most expensive phone and make the highest margin. Good for them and their shareholders on short run, bad for the customers and ultimately bad for them on the long run.

[sapporobaby]

First things first.

Those who are purposely down rating people, the mods are watching and taking note of who is doing it. So enjoy your time before the ban.

Now down to biz.

Scenario 1.

If company A makes widgets that turn clock wise, and company B buys these widgets but company A decides to quit the widget biz all together, who is libel. Company A or company B?

Scenario 2.

If company A makes thing-a-ma-bobs and company B licensed these for their previous model product, but 2 years later company A makes an improvement (or whatever to said product), but this product no longer works with the previous 2 year version, who is responsible? Company A or company B?

All of you "so-called" business people should be able to figure this out.

[dom_dom]

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21-Sep-200704:40 PM
sapporobaby wrote:
First things first.

Those who are purposely down rating people, the mods are watching and taking note of who is doing it. So enjoy your time before the ban.

Now down to biz.

---

1. Why being banned unless mod does not apreciates the truth ?

2. Again I don't care about A or B.

I baught a "super top de luxe smartphone".
It has defacto, written on the box, on the flyers, ... functionalities announced (GPS, PIM, ...) and these well announced functionalities are not present or at least are simply useless.

3. I paid a huge amount of money to enjoy the most powerfull and complete smartphone.

4. The result is very high potential (I really recognize this point) with very low useness !

5. As I already told you, don't try to give it to my father, my wife or my daughter, they won't accept to go into menu, options, tools, or whateverelse just to look for a damned simple phone number !

Please, be honnest, you are NOT the only one on this planet !
Not everyone appreciate to pay a lot to get less.

Understand this and this debat will go on.

Domdom.

Moderator note: ratings exist so that you can make a simple statement as to whether a post helped to answer your question or not. If we see evidence that individuals are abusing the system by deliberately and systematically marking down others as part of a childish fight, then we will step in. Moderators are not here to censor comments that criticise Nokia, but usage of the boards must be in accordance with the rules.

Personal comment towards another user removed.

Message Edited by michaels on 24-Sep-2007 02:19 PM

[amanda5]

In order to help with your confusion Sapporo, simple is best.

If it says Nokia on it, one's recourse is to and with Nokia.

The corollary of your flawed argument is : if there is an issue with the screen on the Nokia device, your logic would suggest that the consumer's course of action would be against the (anonymous) screen manufacturer. I don't think so.

[dhanur_itebe]

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21-Sep-200705:05 PM
amanda5 wrote:
Could you dhanur_itebe say, how did you move office files from N9500 to E90?

---

nokia data remover (please don't ask me just like iam an idiot or something.. my frinds got the same problm. too)

nokia e90.. what a worthless "thing" to buy..(unless my problem get solved)

[jafores]

Welcome back one and ALL let the games begin...... Again. As for me, Just want to say This phone if anything is probably the most controversial of nokias latest products. I guess it must be worth some of their time to look into the issues posted regardless of the source, SW, HW or HW design. the uneven rubber mounts, screen and keyboard scratching, mic defects are non SW also what about the after sales service (or lack thereof) and lets not even get into the SW. So i guess Nokia must take some of the blame right? or maybe its our fault for buying the thing?? and yes I dont remember reading about the HW and HW design problems before i bought the phone. so lets not go there pls. BTW the impetus for this post is not to get into anybodies nerves, or drag Nokias name thru the mud, but just to get Nokia to wake up and smell the COFFEE!

[dhanur_itebe]

it should be "turo" whom i quote... not "amanda5"
Right.. e90 is completely useless..haha

[sapporobaby]

@ the Biz group here, or so-called biz group (they know who they are)

The only thing missing with your tap dance is music. I noticed no one answered the question directly.

As I say, yes Nokia included the software as part of a bundle. Why not? It is a biz device, thus needs biz software. However, what should Nokia do if a)the company that makes the software stops, or b) the developer changes the way the software functions and is no longer backwards compatible. (Disclaimer: Not saying that this is a good thing, but it is a fact that has happened it seems) c) developer no longer decides to support said software, and goes into another direction, d) raises the licensing fee so high that Nokia has to either pass the increase on to the consumer or drop the software all together.

Put on your thinking caps biz people.

Moderator note: Personal comment towards another user removed.

Message Edited by michaels on 24-Sep-2007 02:22 PM

[wolf666]

Gentlemen,
save your energies for the release of the new firmware.

Surely, if it will fail to satisfy the most, I think a large part of Nokia Business Customers will ebay this handset.


Let's see.

[sapporobaby]

Ciao bello.

[sapporobaby]

By the way Wolf666,

I was talking to my Nokia friend. The new Communicator (if that is what it will be called) will be awesome and totally radical. Send me a PM and I will fill you in.

[sapporobaby]

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21-Sep-200704:13 PM
dom_dom wrote:

Please, be honnest, you are NOT the only one on this planet !
Not everyone appreciate to pay a lot to get less.

Understand this and this debat will go on.

Domdom.

---

I never said I was the only person on this planet, but I am a person that does not happen to agree with the opinions of you and your cabal, and you don't have to agree with mine. I could not care less what you and your minions think about me, Nokia, the E90, the price of bananas, etc.... It is your money and you can do whatever you want with it. I am pretty much pleased with my E90. It does what it was advertised to do. It has some faults but what device this sophisticated doesn't? So, with the software I've added, I am enjoying my E90 experience.

I think we are done here.

Moderator notes: references to personal comment in earlier post removed, as that comment has also been removed.

Message Edited by michaels on 24-Sep-2007 02:24 PM