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Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

Counsellor
michail71
Posts: 114

Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

We see many complaits here of soft images but I'm wondering what the problem could be.  I'm noticing this as well.  Yes, I removed the protective plastic.

 

Is the jpeg compression too agressive?  Anyone know what is used?  The image sizes seem comporable to the iPhone's.

 

Can it be shallow DOF from the f 2.0 lense?

 

Can it be too aressive of a noise reduction setting?

 

I'd personally like to see many more photo settings to tweak.  It's too basic as of now.

Mobile Overlord
cjlim
Posts: 17,015

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

I don't have this issue on mine, well at least I don't think I do. Have you tried downloading the same photo to a pc and see if it is still soft on your computer screen. Best to download using the usb cable to maintain quality. It would be interesting just to see.

Counsellor
skylr616
Posts: 23

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

The Lumia 920 has extraordinary low-light and video performance (thanks to the image stabilization) but its pretty widely accepted that it produces "softer" images when compared to other high-end smartphones. The specific reason for this is not entirely known but the fact that the Lumia produces images with file sizes about 1/2 that of the iPhone 5 (for example) implies it could be a compression issue of some kind. The good news is that the issue will likely be resolved through a software update (Nokia made an official comment about this a while back but I can't find it atm).

 

Some people have reported better results after switching to the 4:3 aspect ratio (the author of the following article doesn't think it makes a difference but I certainly can see a difference between the pics in sharpness/clarity).

 

http://www.wpcentral.com/can-changing-aspect-ratio-nokia-lumia-920-sharpen-images

Counsellor
michail71
Posts: 114

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

Yes, viewing full resulotion images on the PC is where I really notice the softening. 

 

Over agressive noise reduction can also result in a smaller file size as noise grain adds to the file size.  With the low light performance this camera has I wouldn't be suprised if they were overly focused on that and botched the normal light performance on the initial release.  

 

The problem has to be in the software.

 

I'll try to mess with the iso modes later and see if that makes a difference.

 

And while we are on the camera topic, would anyone else like to see a quick toggle on camera settings?  It's cumbersome to change iso and color temp.

Advisor
SlavaKM
Posts: 14

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

I decided not to wait around like a beta-tester and returned my L920 at the end of 2 weeks.
I wanted to like it, i really did. Getting free charger and headphones with the $100 phone is a hell of a deal too. But it's not enough for me.

I was willing to live with inconsistent battery and "3rd world apps" but the camera had to perform and it didn't. Low light performance was nice, but i need the camera to be consistent. 
Replaced with iPhone5.

Counsellor
skylr616
Posts: 23

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

@SlavaKM

I know how you feel. I was happy to compromise on several fronts but the Camera is supposed to be THE feature of this phone. It does grab some amazing low-light shots but it consistently produces very soft images (particularly when compared directly to the iPhone 5).

I'm "gambling" a bit on the idea that Nokia will be in a hurry to fix this issue since the Camera is supposed to be the main selling point.

 

*crosses fingers*

Advisor
SlavaKM
Posts: 14

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

Exactly.
I hope the fix comes soon.
Instagram is heading to WP8 too, so L920 night photography could really swing some people over.
Damn it, MS/Nokia - why can't you get the camera right.
Mobile Guru
matthew_maude
Posts: 1,963

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

Does anyone have any examples comparing it to an iPhone 5? I've always had the upper hand comparing to that and the Galaxy S3...

©2012 DJ Matt

Counsellor
skylr616
Posts: 23

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

@ matthew_maude

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57542752-85/nokia-lumia-920-camera-vs-htc-windows-phone-8x-vs-iphon...

 

The first shot (cabbage) shows what I mean... the iPhone 5 shot has a little camera shake which blurs it a bit but even with that it still shows off more fine detail than the 920. If you look at the fabric in those colorful socks, for example, they almost look like nylons in the 920 because you lose the fine detail almost entirely.

 

The 920 only really pulls ahead in clarity the low light shots (because the iPhone's lack of OIS means it can't capture the detail in the first place).

Mobile Guru
matthew_maude
Posts: 1,963

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

I need some real life examples really... those shots don't look anywhere near as good as I gen, or even compared to what I've seen on an I phone 5

the 920 shots look like they're taken in close up mode which is very problematic anyway.

also, the image stabiliser doesn't work for the still photo's

©2012 DJ Matt

Mobile Overlord
adrianhughes
Posts: 10,343

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

You could always sharpen up the photos in the supplied Creative Studio app that is on the phone, or apply post-processing on a PC later. Not ideal, but its a workaround for now, as Nokia are aware of the issue and are said to be working on an update to be released in the near future.

For those of you impatient for Instagram, there is a lovely alternative that I think does it even better than the 'Gram, called Lomogram, it's free and in the Store.
Registered Member
Esanssia
Posts: 2

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

Yes it really does have some sharpness issues. My former phone N9 is much sharper than this. I really hope that they can fix this problem.

Counsellor
skylr616
Posts: 23

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

@ matthew_maude

 

What makes you think OIS doesn't work in still images? I was under the impression OIS was one of the main reasons the 920 had such high quality low-light shots (less shake means it can do longer exposure without the blurring).

 

"These advances are complemented by Optical Image Stabilization (OIS). Your pictures and videos won’t blur when your hands are shaking, or when you are on the move." - conversations.nokia.com

 

In any case... those pics aren't perfect but they work as a reasonble CONTRAST between the two devices. The iPhone 5 obivously produces more detailed pictures in a variety of situations. If you just google "920 versus iphone 5" there are more than a few articles/forum threads that clearly show the issue (even some where the article writer seems to have missed the issue entirely... folks seem so star-struck by the low-light performance that they miss the softness in all other shots).

 

Here is the next article down in the search results (pay close attention to the well lit shots): Slashgear

 

Lumia 920 vs iPhone 5

 

@ adrianhughes

 

Post-process sharpening helps a little but you can't really put detail BACK in to a photo once its been taken out (or not captured in the first place). It is pretty much what I have been doing... which sucks... especially considering how this phone is marketed. :*(

Sage
Fresh_Breeze
Posts: 64

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?


michail71 wrote:

Can it be shallow DOF from the f 2.0 lense?


Small lens aperture doesn't automatically mean shallow depth of field because DOF depends on the camera's crop factor too. Lumia 920 has 1/3" type of sensor, wich gives crop factor about 7.2. Multiply f number with crop factor and you will  get DOF equivalence for a 35 mm full frame camera. In this case, f/2.0 multiplied by crop factor 7.21 equals 14.4. So Lumia 920's camera has similar DOF than f/14.4 on a full frame camera, which isn't shallow at all.

Mobile Guru
matthew_maude
Posts: 1,963

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

@skylr616
I could be wrong but it definitely doesn't stabilise the 'view finder' image where as it does if you switch it to video mode...

©2012 DJ Matt

Counsellor
michail71
Posts: 114

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?


adrianhughes wrote:
You could always sharpen up the photos in the supplied Creative Studio app that is on the phone, or apply post-processing on a PC later. Not ideal, but its a workaround for now, as Nokia are aware of the issue and are said to be working on an update to be released in the near future.

For those of you impatient for Instagram, there is a lovely alternative that I think does it even better than the 'Gram, called Lomogram, it's free and in the Store.

 

Where did you hear they are working on the issue?  That is exciting news.

 

Between the white balance and post capture softeneing the camera is driving me nuts.  White balace is easily fixed but the detail destruction the firmware's post processing is doing can't be fixed.  The nokia engineers need to take look at what Noiseware Professional can accomplish without wrecking detail.

 

Full on shots with flash seem to come out good.

Counsellor
skylr616
Posts: 23

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

[ Edited ]

@Michail71

 

"Nokia France’s Xavier des Horts responded to a tweet about this supposed issue, which described images taken with plenty of lighting as too smooth, or soft-looking. Des Horts only replied briefly, but did note that Nokia would work to make adjustments to the 920′s camera to address this issue."

 

http://pocketnow.com/2012/11/05/nokia-lumia-920-camera-fix

 

@matthew_maude

The camera only needs to apply OIS when the image is being captured and on top of that it just makes sense. The reason most camera phones don't attempt such long exposures automatically is because they just end up a blurry mess... OIS is a perfect technology for this application (and explains how they can do it).

Counsellor
michail71
Posts: 114

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

Just tested with the new firmware and the camera fixes are fantastic!

New Member
kaddaz
Posts: 1

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?


michail71 wrote:

 

 

And while we are on the camera topic, would anyone else like to see a quick toggle on camera settings?  It's cumbersome to change iso and color temp.


If you want a good quick toggle plus access to a heap more settings that aren't on the default 920 camera, try this lens: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-au/store/app/camerapro/ee7b9093-62ec-48f5-9364-1b192509c86f

 

On the topic of the camera update, I updated to PR1.1 (australia) via nokia care and I noticed a small improvement in IQ, but there is still a distinct lack of detail, and objects still have that 'painted' look to me. With a 100% crop most cameras still have some detail, but this one is just a messy blur of painted looking pixels for me. I just hope there are more updates on the way, starting to think the 8X may be a better photographer's phone.

Advisor
Rissen
Posts: 9

Re: Lumia 920 -- possible camera issues?

My White 920 is making SOFT pictures as well, no matter before update or after about same thing....its almost like a digital zoom effect, my Samsung Captivate which I had for 2 years with 5mp camera made better pictures...and not even compared to my wife Sony Ion its a 12mp camera but pictures are wayyyy better. 

Don't wont to be like and 12 year old boy but PLEASE NOKIA FIX IT!!!

Such hopes for this phone and all this minor but stupid issues with Rattle vibrator and blurry pictures is frustrating...plus I wanted a Cyan and never got one...out of stock forevaaaar:crying: