[LarsW]

I just picked up an E52 because I liked the form factor, and read that it could push my google contacts, calendar and gmail. Cool. No more manually synching calender and contacts through MyPhoneExplorer.

I didn't understand the whole Nokia Messaging setup before purchase and realized quickly that Nokia Messaging on the E52 does not support true native IMAP push for gmail, like most other phones I've been using. See my post in the E-series forum about that:

/discussions/board/message?board.id=communicators&thread.id=51791

So since I want my gmail pushed to me, I am stuck with the Nokia messaging setup and having netac26.vie.hosting.nokia.com (Nokia Messaging) reading my emails and sending them to me. Thats at least how i understand it after spending way too many hours diving into this nokia disaster sine I picked up my phone 3 days ago.

How can this be accetable?  Yeah I know they swear not to misuse your password. Thats nice. :-/

I wonder who came up with this architecture?? 

Chuck in sales: "Lets read peoples email, and when they configure it on their phone, let not tell them, unless they wonder what "netac26.vie.hosting.nokia.com" in the settings is all about."  

Charles in marketing: "Great idea!!!" 

 I'm a developer and I've seen a lot of sick solutions, but this one takes the cake....

So ... am I the only one  who doesnt like this?

/Lars

[gics]

No, you are not the only one. But also Nokia is not the only one, think about fring, for example.

What really annoys me is this: if an IMAP account is used directly, you can synchronize only a fixed number of messages, and you cannot automatically delete from your phone inbox messages older than let's say 3 days.

The same account used with Nokia Messaging proxy could be configured to synchronize messages from the last three days, and delete older.

Why is this stupid difference?

[LarsW]

Hi gics, thanks for posting. Glad to hear I havent gotten it all wrong. 

I don't know fring, but why don't Nokia just let people use push like most other mobile phone producers.I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist   But this sounds likea scheme to force Nokia phone users to use a Nokia software service. 

 Is the netac26.vie.hosting.nokia.com also used when synching emails with a real Exchange Server?  I hope not .. because how would a company with sensitive information like that Nokia potentially have acccess to their mail? 

About the IMAP settings:

On my E52 - If I set up an IMAP connection, I have NO limit to how many messages I can syncronize to my phone. At least thats what the menu say. I rarely have more than 50 in my inbox anyway. Now this is a "standard" IMAP setup, not the Gmail one where Nokia apparently think they know more about how you want it configured than you do yourself. "We know you will only want messages no older than 3 months"  ... sigh.

Set up a standard IMAP account and point it to Gmail IMAP, Go to Mailbox settings / what to sync / what to sync  and you can choose to sync a number of emails or ALL emails. Not just the Nokia "max 3 months". They just chose to not let you use push. And thats bugging me because then you are forced onto Nokia Messaging.

Basically. All I want is just simple push IMAP withoyut nokias service. I get this on the CHEAPEST of phones out there. But on this business phone.  Forget it!!

Message Edited by LarsW on 12-Nov-2009 11:41 PM

[tanz1987]

Thank you Lars for bringing up this concern about email privacy. This entire system of push email is based on the fact that you trust the push service (Nokia Email) with all your usernames and passwords.

I use a Nokia E66 and quickly understood the difference between the native POP3/IMAP client and Nokia Email. The latter one is suggested all over the place as soon as I try to set up Hotmail or Ovi Mail. I believe Nokia should mention in plain words that they are going to store my Windows Live login credentials on their own servers (which is kind of similar to what phishers do).

[hadimassa]

Do you really think there is difference between NM and MfE, Emoze, Profimail or any other e-mail service? They all use the same infrastructure: internet, hubs, servers, etc.... If you use Hotmail or Gmail, they can take a real good look at your profile and your e-mails, if they want to. If your boss wants to know what you are mailing, it's easy to retreive all the info about you. So, privacy? 

[LarsW]

Hi Tanz1987,

Good point - I guess you are right that when it comes to Push we have an issue around sending the username/password and frankly I have no clue as to how this is handled from a security perspective.

Doesnt the E66 handle REAL push without going through NM?  They seem to have disabled it in the E52. Thats what really sucks.

And yeah Nokia ... please mention something about this in the licensing. I wasn't able to find anything about it there.

[LarsW]

Hi Hadimazza,

Profimail is a client application, while NM is hosted in the cloud, where I have no control over what they store, or what the do with content produced and owned by me, that might pass in an email.

Which is the way things are going I know. I've played with the Azure SDK and I am looking forward to what is coming in that whole area of cloud computing etc. I'm down with that. What is missing though, is a description of what is going on in the Nokia Service and how Nokia is handling and protecting my data. Is it like hotmail where they claim to have full IP rights of your content? You get my drift. And an explanation to users around what is going on here. This whole thing is not documented anywhere. At least not anywhere i have looked.

Since I am my own boss, I know what is in my emails. Its Nokia I'm worried about. My email is none of their business.

And what I am really curious about is - do they force ppl with an Exchange server through their NM service as well??  

And what I am REALLY objecting to, is the fact that proper push does not seem to work unless you go through Nokia's proprietary service. It seems that they have disabled the basic push functionality in the phone. Why?   I did the "exit the wizard" and I got the right interface for entering e.g. Gmail IMAP settings, but it doesnt push. I have to sync it manually. Not even a timed sync will run in the background. Thats forcing ppl to use NM by breaking the phones capabilities. Thats not playing nice in my book.... 

[hadimassa]

In that case, scroll down to the bottom on the website and read that fine print of service conditions and privacy policy.

[LarsW]

Hi Hadimassa, 

I did read both of the pdf documents. I expect that you mean the ones at the bottom of the email.nokia.com site, right?  And they state that 

"Nokia companies and authorized third parties We may share your personal data with other
Nokia companies or authorized third parties who process personal data for Nokia for the purposes
described in this Policy. Such parties are not permitted to use your personal data for other
purposes, and we require them to act consistently with this Policy and to use appropriate security
measures to protect your personal data."

Which is always nice to hear   :-)   So authorized third parties can have your personal data without your consent.I didn't catch that on my first read, but hey ... even that don't **bleep** me off. It's just a common set of privacy policies for any interaction with Nokia.

What **bleep** me off is that they NOWHERE state that your phone communicates with a proxy (netac26.vie.hosting.nokia.com) that must somehow have access to your email username  and password, and that they use it several times a day. Especially when it isn't even necessary as in the case of Gmail, that does push just FINE without Nokia.

Call me old fashioned but I don't like that.That nokia.com address is just shoved in there without you knowing. At least they could describe what is going on, and as is the case with other services (like LastPass) that handles passwords in the cloud, I would like to hear how I am protected against for instance Identity Theft. I don't have any state secrets in my mail, but I wouldn't love to see my email/pw out there for anyone to use, one day.

It's great that you are such a trusting guy, and don't have a problem with that.Well. I do.

[hadimassa]

Well, in fact, I don't use NM at all for the same reasons as you. But, if you register to this service, it's obvious they use your profile for there statistics. On the other hand, this service is quite new and the feedback they get from users is important. I don't see you as old fashioned.You have a good sence of privacy.

[tanz1987]

---

LarsW wrote:

I have to sync it manually. Not even a timed sync will run in the background.

---

Are you sure about this? At least the E66 has an automatic e-mail retrieval feature with lots of control on frequency and times of day or days of week. It can only download headers for IMAP mailboxes, but with POP it can optionally get the message body/attachments. However, I must assign a specific access point (may be WiFi or packet data) to the mailbox to enable the option.

[LarsW]

Tanz,

Yeah I am sure. But I only testet push and timed sync using IMAP. I havent tried it using POP3 access.

I still have the acount setup on my phone and still ... even though I set it up to sync every 15 or 30 minutes, it NEVER syncs in the background unless I have the inbox open

As I stated .. I havent tried it using POP3, so I can only describe IMAP functionality.

[LarsW]

Hadi,

Thanks for your response. It was a good discussion around this!     Andyou are right - it's a new service and I will follow and see how Nokia will adapt. 

I am curious .... what do you use instead of NM?   I Tried Profimail, and I've tried the builtin basic IMAP setup.

best regards

Lars

[hadimassa]

---

LarsW wrote:

Hadi,

Thanks for your response. It was a good discussion around this!     Andyou are right - it's a new service and I will follow and see how Nokia will adapt. 

I am curious .... what do you use instead of NM?   I Tried Profimail, and I've tried the builtin basic IMAP setup.

best regards

Lars

---

The problem on my devices is that the default e-mail app doesn't support html, whitch I find absolute unacceptable. So, I use Profimail and Emoze.

[acrg]

I completely agree with Lars.  It is downright unacceptable for Nokia to be stealing our mail login credentials.  When I first saw this thread I thought Lars was high, but I checked my mail server logs and it's scary to see the liberties that a corporate like Nokia is taking with NM!

On the upside, it looks like it only happens once, when you create a new account in that useless wizard that can't be bypassed.  Once the IMAP server details are set the phone seems to connect directly to the IMAP server.  Maybe a workaround is to just enter an incorrect password into the wizard deliberately and when it fails, set the IMAP details manually.

As far as push goes, Lars is right again - NM's IMAP implementation is juvenile. After connecting, it idles for 5 minutes and then logs out from the IMAP server.  If you set a timely sync interval, it does a full connect/disconnect each time.  This is not push, and is horribly inefficient.  The IMAP "IDLE" command was created for a reason, and NM does implement it, just improperly.

[LarsW]

Hahaha ... who said I wasn't high!   :-D

The program managers that approved of all of this must surely have been  ...

Anyway ... great to see some more precise evidence on what is going on. My observations were not that precise.

[murks0815]

Seems nokia has a huge managent vacuum.

You cannot sell business phones with this kind of misusage of personal data.

btw. take a look at the E52's disaster.

[andraeseus]

any idea how to get instant messaging on nokia 7373

[e72u]

Hi,

On the e72 it even gets worse. When you setup an account (with imap idle) without this stupid Nokia messaging thing itjust doesnt keep connected. more and more people are reporting this. no way i will use their trendy but unstable, needless and privacybreaking service. Back to Profimail on device that should give me this (according to its official page):

* Supported protocols: IMAP4 (with idle), Nokia Messaging, Microsoft ActiveSync, POP3, SMTP

[gumson]

Yes, this Nokia messaging service is one stupid thing. I try to create acounts and install over SMS message. All accounts is read only, you cannot delete because they read only. ?????????????????????????. Only way to delete acounts on mobile phone is another message without accountss Then another problem accoured, you cannot manualy create new account on phone with your own settings,, old settings are storeds Stupid program Nokia messaging service, now  I removed all accounts on phone and of course do not forget to change all your password.