[cnryan01]

I have given up on Nokia resolving this problem, even using Skydrive, this does not sync the contacts it just copies duplicates of my contacts.  I am disappointed with Nokia and they will continue to loose market share if they do not take their customer serious and just put out phone for adolescents to hear and swap music and ignore the serious business user.  I have met other Lumia users and they all complain about the same things.  I suggest someone at Nokia buy a Blackberry and see how a true business phone works and syncs with a desktop etc.

I don't want to maintain my contact information on the cloud (Skydrive) my master contact file is and always will be, on my desktop PC like most business people.

HAS ANYONE TRIED THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM?

SYNCABLE 360 PREMIUM FOR WINDOWS

(Available from www.download.com) they claim to sync files from the PC with all types of phones.

[paulheu]

Most business people use Exchange.. Guess where your contactlist is with exchange.

[n0k1afan]

Hey Kosh thanks for the info.

If you think it's a problem transferring files on our new age phones. Imagine what it was like for people using these classic 'old school' nokia phones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_eQaZsypEE

[nagendranpc]

Problem with Microsoft is that it is placing all to Cloud computing. However, if reading various postings about Nokia's latest Lumia, you will find that users are still demanding PC-device based communication, primarily via USB data cable (USB3 will be even better). Ironically, Microsoft developers of the engine of Outlook/MSOffice and having it run on Win8 abruptly does not visualize the corelationship of user-device interface which should be readily available.

A simple installation question to user would be:

1) DO you want to sync your outlook database to you mobile device via USB cable

2) DO you want to sync your outlook database to Skydrive and remotely to you device

That would have created immediate option to standalone users to define the sync setting and get the database uploaded to Lumia phones. It would have been a great features, giving users the strength to either sync via Skydrive or directly via USB interface.

WHY NOKIA is not 'jailbreaking' the Nokia Suite to interface with Lumia for direct sync and why MICROSOFT is just not realizing that users should have choice between Cloud computing and standalone interface is just what is making the purchases to dump LUMIA and find alternatives.

I have been glued to N8 with Belle OS that syncs greatly on Nokia Suite and having IPhone4S to an alternative database also from sync direct from my PC to device. I greatly want to use Lumia to work with my Win8 PC but it is just a wait till 'death do us apart'.

I dont know how long and how much suffering NOKIA needs to endure just to keep LUMIA users selling their phone after they are reaching the surprised finding of the sync issues.

[paulheu]

---

nagendranpc wrote:

A simple installation question to user would be:

1) DO you want to sync your outlook database to you mobile device via USB cable

2) DO you want to sync your outlook database to Skydrive and remotely to you device

---

There are no phones that sync the outlook database via USB. Outlook does not offer this functionality. WHat happens is that some 'sync' apps actually hack the datafiles directly without going though Outlook at all to get the data in or out.

By default and by design Outlook sync with your mail server which is ... wait for it.... in the cloud/on the internet or whatever you wish to call it. Your Microsoft account is in the same realm and is much safer there then it would be on your PC at home. You wil always have access to your data where ever you go. As posted before, the chance of yoru home PC getting stolen is much greater when compared to the possibility of anyone gettig access to your Microsoft Account. If your PC gets stolen you loose all your data without a way back, if your PC HD crashes the same happens.

Anyone who is paranoid about the cloud services of Microsoft should seriously consider not using mail/facebook/twitter/any connectivity to the internet in general. It's time to put the tin foil hats aways and move into the real world here. In a few years time this will be the only way these systems work in any case.. might as well get on board now.

[SvenJ]

"There are no phones that sync the outlook database via USB. Outlook does not offer this functionality. WHat happens is that some 'sync' apps actually hack the datafiles directly without going though Outlook at all to get the data in or out."

Arguing semantics here? Lots of phones access the Outlook data resident on the desktop PC, and do it via USB or local network WiFi. This includes phones that used the Nokia Suite, MS ActiveSync and Windows Mobiler Device Center and even iPhone via iTunes. Whether they access Outlook per-se, or the pst, the database in which Oultllok stores stuff, is outwardly immaterial. The ability to sync PIM information directly off your PC has been around since Palm Pilots and before. It was a concept and capability before cell phones and 'ubiguitous' wireless, for PDAs which was carried along into the cell phone platform.

That doesn't mean I believe it is the way to go, just that it has existed for a long time and still does. It is not the direction MS took for the new philosophy. It appears that MSs belief is that the Phone is a client to a server, just like the PC. It is not a client to the PC. It is a full citizen in the computing world. The belief is that most people already have their information "in the cloud', whether they realize it or not. Hotmail, Google, business Exchange implementations, all keep the information in some server, somewhere, and Outlook or whatever, accesses that via some network, wired, or wireless. The phone is intended to do the same, get the data from the source, not an intemediary, and only when in close proximity. That is infinitly more useful. Having come through the Windows CE, PPC, Phone Edition, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, I much prefer having all my devices, Phones, laptops, iPads, Androids, all completely in sync, all the time, with really no effort on my part.

There is still that segment of users that may be using an ISP that only supports mail, via PoP, and their Contacts and Calendar are completely local. For them, this is a problem. But it is only a problem if they refuse to take advantage of the free solutions. I just imagine the number of folks who 'can't' is pretty small, percentage wise, and that is likely what drives MSs support for it. Implementing it does open the experience up to a lot of issues, and not pushes users to a more robust one, if they are not already there.

I don't see this much different than the switch from analog to digital phones, from analog to digital broadcast TV, from leaded to unleaded gas. Things move on, and you are welcome to embrace the old, but then you are stuck there. You can't have part of the old (direct cable syncing) and the newest phone.

[paulheu]

 I remember the HUGE arguments back when on Usenet we went from uuencoding binaries to yEnc. Probably means nothing to most people here, but the argument was pretty much the same between people who did not like change and those who only saw the advantages and realized there are no real disadvantages,

The whole argument of cost is to be honest a bogus one. Having a POP mail account requires access to the internet and I would find it very hard to believe that in 2013 there would be carriers who do permit POP but do block internet as a whole. Also the online sync of contacts and calendar data is measured in KB at best and will never run up any bills.

The security argument is IMO also a non issue as I am pretty sure it's a bit harder to get into your account then it would be to get into your house and steal your PC.

And the last one.. privacy would in the case of your personal data also be non valid, it's all encrypted and not accessible by anyone but yourself.

I honestly feel that anyone bringing up privacy or security as an argument should not access the internet at all. There is far bigger risks out there and so they should stay away from it..

[Manu_T]

" If you don't like it, maybe beat them up for adopting it"

I have no problem with "them" adopting it. As long as it happens complementory with their excisiting solutions.

But Nokia tries to convince excisting Symbian users that WP is "the New Symbian" hence why so many ex-symbian on this forum complain. They feel ripped. They bought a new platform in confidence that it would be as userfriendly and capable as their old platform plus add some new future proof technology. Alas it ain't so. 

What Windows Phone adds in high-res screens and dual-core cpu's, it lacks on most of the Symbian features that we take for granted. This is NOT progress but regress. Nokia's phones have evolved in 2012-13 into pre-2005 cripple-ware with hi-res screens.

The other Symbian users seem rather better informed and don't fall for Nokia's propaganda. They're on the forum next door ;-)

Or have defected to Android. Which has its own share of problems.

Nokia should have kept Symbian under it's wings. Because after the disillusions of "the other phone OSes" many would eventually have returned (or bought a Symbian model as a spare workhorse to get stuff done without all the hassle).

I truely hope they reconsider their WP8-deal and keep suporting their few loyal Symbianigans.

[Manu_T]

---

Antoinenexgo wrote:

I´m not beating them up for adopting it, I just forget it. Most of my collegues have already changed to a different OS and phone. My first mobile was Nokia, but the 701 is definitely the last.

---

Try the 808 fantastic device. Good-looking, fast (just as the 701), amazing photo's and everything else the 701 has. The only item wrongly not well-liked is the galery app. It has less features but is WAY faster then the old galery app. On the 701 you have to wait a second when zoomed in to get the full sharpness on the new gallery you don't.

Just keep it on FP1 because FP2 looks but-ugly and it breaks a few apps. But i love me 808. I'm thinking of getting a second one as a spare.

A few tips for Nokia there's a patch to use the red-mute-LED as a charging indicator. Perhaps Nokia can implement that patch as some "upgrade" to make the 808 even better without much effort as the patch is already developed by an end-user.

And secondly re-instated the darker amoled friendlier Nokia Evolve theme for FP2. We KNOW you have a darker FP2-keyboard layout in your vaults. Why not release it as a "theme"?

And as 3rd perhaps re-instate the disable theme effects-menu? Please? Hacking the phone to get rid of the stupid slow-downs is a nuiance. As withotu theme effects the phone is soo much faster.

[paulheu]

---

Manu_T wrote:

" If you don't like it, maybe beat them up for adopting it"

I have no problem with "them" adopting it. As long as it happens complementory with their excisiting solutions.

But Nokia tries to convince excisting Symbian users that WP is "the New Symbian".

---

Which is where you are wrong. Nokia does not, nowhere, ever promote WP as 'The New Symbian'. Nokia has retired Symbian in favour of WP. Symbian is dead and buried.

It is soe within the current Symbian userbase which assumed that WP is the new Symbian and clamours to it as if life without it would be meaningless. That said, with WP8 we now see the first implementation of typical Symbian features and I am sure we will see more of that in the updates to come. 

But WP != Symbian and it will never be. It's better in some ways and has catching up to do in others (and I feel it will) but it will never be Symbian.. IMO for the better.

[Manu_T]

---

SvenJ wrote:

"There are no phones that sync the outlook database via USB. Outlook does not offer this functionality. WHat happens is that some 'sync' apps actually hack the datafiles directly without going though Outlook at all to get the data in or out."

Arguing semantics here? Lots of phones access the Outlook data resident on the desktop PC, and do it via USB or local network WiFi. This includes phones that used the Nokia Suite, MS ActiveSync and Windows Mobiler Device Center and even iPhone via iTunes. Whether they access Outlook per-se, or the pst, the database in which Oultllok stores stuff, is outwardly immaterial. The ability to sync PIM information directly off your PC has been around since Palm Pilots and before. It was a concept and capability before cell phones and 'ubiguitous' wireless, for PDAs which was carried along into the cell phone platform.

That doesn't mean I believe it is the way to go, just that it has existed for a long time and still does. It is not the direction MS took for the new philosophy. It appears that MSs belief is that the Phone is a client to a server, just like the PC. It is not a client to the PC. It is a full citizen in the computing world. The belief is that most people already have their information "in the cloud', whether they realize it or not. Hotmail, Google, business Exchange implementations, all keep the information in some server, somewhere, and Outlook or whatever, accesses that via some network, wired, or wireless. The phone is intended to do the same, get the data from the source, not an intemediary, and only when in close proximity. That is infinitly more useful. Having come through the Windows CE, PPC, Phone Edition, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, I much prefer having all my devices, Phones, laptops, iPads, Androids, all completely in sync, all the time, with really no effort on my part.

There is still that segment of users that may be using an ISP that only supports mail, via PoP, and their Contacts and Calendar are completely local. For them, this is a problem. But it is only a problem if they refuse to take advantage of the free solutions. I just imagine the number of folks who 'can't' is pretty small, percentage wise, and that is likely what drives MSs support for it. Implementing it does open the experience up to a lot of issues, and not pushes users to a more robust one, if they are not already there.

---

You seem to forget a few things.

Majority of ISP's only use POP as email-transport. Only the webbased alternatives use Cloud-based solutions (GMail, Hotmail/live/whatever, yahoomail etc...).

Secondly some end-users are restricted by client-confidentiality (I'm one of them) and CAN'T use these clouds. Because:

a) some contacts have given me their unlisted, private telephonenumber in strict confidence that that telno. will NOT be further distributed.

b) the contact data on the phone is a paid for purchased database. In my case I paid a respectable amount for that database which contains all my clients including telephone nos, addresses, GPS-coordinates and various client info. If Google/Microsoft/Yahoo wants that data then I want MONEY!

So please STOP repeating the web-mail-providers propaganda that cloud is the way. I, and I alone, decide how I use my device and how much I value my privacy!

[emilygreen]

Hi folks,

Just a gentle reminder, we are using a peer-to-peer discussion forum and we have to maintain a friendly atmosphere. Please ensure polite and respectful correspondence with each other to avoid causing arguments or offending other users. 

[Manu_T]

---

paulheu wrote:

The security argument is IMO also a non issue as I am pretty sure it's a bit harder to get into your account then it would be to get into your house and steal your PC.

---

See:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48611864/Hacked_Journalist_Don039t_Put_Too_Much_Trust_in_Cloud

http://gigaom.com/2012/08/01/dropbox-yes-we-were-hacked/

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-hack-azure-20130222,0,6681241.story

The cloud is Safe. Sure, keep on dreaming!

Now, where did I put that trusty USB-cable.

Anyway there's a vast difference between a binary encoding standard than what's mentioned here.

I have no problem by upgrading from Office 2003 to Office 2007 or 2012. That could be progress. But changing from local USB syncing to online cloud-based IS way different.

Progress would be using Bluetooth syncing or WiFi-syncing to COMPLEMENT USB-syncing. What you descirbe is exchanging one secure option for a less secure option with the supposed benefit of having access to that data with more devices (which is usually not even needed nor wanted). 

I have no problem with using a selected set of cloud-based services. For instance I use Opera's cloud to sync my bookmarks accross all the Opera-browsers that I use (which include the one on my 808 Pureview). Only because in my opinion bookmarks and favorites are less sensitive data, I have no problem with that being on the cloud.

Contacts especially are too private IMHO.

[paulheu]

You're free to choose another platform which provides you with what you need or want, I'd suggest you do so.

Your arguments are flawed and misinformed at best. But I've spend too much time already trying to explain thesethings to the tinfoil hat gang.

But OK here we go once more.

MST/Nokia do not have access to your personal data, this is only readable to you. If you think your data is untouchable on your PC and can't be taken from your you have another one coming. Please provide us with proof I am wrong as you seem to be suggesting I am.

Oh and it is trivial to get your data stired through Nokia Suite on your PC. It's not encrupted and there are a number of free tools available to get all your contact data from your PC. Second, if your PC gets stolen your data is gone.

Oh and where do you think your POP based email goes to or is stored, I'll give you one guess..

Webmail based clients != cloud based solution. The web interface is just that a web interface to a mail server just like the one your ISP offers for your orn mail server. The whole cloud thing is ONLY a marketing tool to make the whole thing easier to explain.

Hotmail, Outlook.com and gmail are just POP/IMAP mail servers with a webmail frontend like any other. In fact I am pretty sure they have quite a bit stronger security and encryption compared to your average hosted mail server in an everyday data centre or even your companies Exchange server which, again will be hosted in... wait for it.... 'The Cloud'.

I can tell you where Microsoft has their datacentre in say the Netherlands and you go try get information from them, any information. You won't get any further then than the customer service phone number and they will tell you zip, nada, nothing. Try mailing them and your mail comes straight back saying the mailaddress is not authorized to communicate with their mailserver.

[paulheu]

---

Manu_T wrote:

---

paulheu wrote:

The security argument is IMO also a non issue as I am pretty sure it's a bit harder to get into your account then it would be to get into your house and steal your PC.

---

See:

[list of links removed]

The cloud is Safe. Sure, keep on dreaming!

Now, where did I put that trusty USB-cable.

Contacts especially are too private IMHO.

---

Thee fact they got hacked does not mean your information is now readily available. The sources you link to also have a tendency to hype up if not blow up these instances.

So far we have seen one serious breach and this was due to very poor security and mismanagement and that was the Sony Network hack.

These reports do not mention no actual usable data was taken. An encrypted list of passwords and data is useless unless you can decyfer them. The point some of these attempts make is that these companies have to step up their security. And again, there's a much bigger chance your home PC gets stolen. Have you encrypted your data on your HD? You sure??

I'll say this once more, then leave you to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory illusions;

If you do not like the way Windows Phone handles contacts sync please, no PLEASE, go and get yourself a simple phone which has no internet access, will keep all your contacts on the phone and syncs through a cable. Then hope you won't loose the phone while a fe hundred miles from home... Or you come home to find your hose cleaned out.

And with that, I'll give it another try to let it be..

[Manu_T]

"Nokia has retired Symbian in favour of WP. Symbian is dead and buried."

Which was a very stupid thing to do.

There's absolutely no reason to "kill" Symbian and burry it. As Symbian STILL has a lot of features that WP hasn't got. I mentioned 2-way call recording.

And YES, Nokia is trying to persuade excisiting Symbian users to go for Lumia's.

Symbian is dead because Nokia itself restricts sale of various Symbian models globally, by restricting in models and in regions. For instance the Nokia 701 was only available in Silver in the country where I live. Another example: The N9 was available in e.g Belgium but NOT in the Netherlands (the country next to it).

The fact is that Symbian is only "dead and buried" because Nokia's present CEO wants it to be "dead and buried". Propably because Symbian had WON its war against Windows Mobile in 2009. Marketing wise it sold quite enough until Elops disastrous 2010 "burning platform"-memo and even quite some time thereafter. The N8 was Nokia's biggest success although the burning platform note was issued right after it came to market. 

They deliberately sabotaged themselves! the Fools!

Does the term "self fulfilling prophecy" mean anything to you?

[paulheu]

The N8 sold about 11 million phones, nowhere near nokia's best seller list, not even close. The topsellers are all 150 million and beyond.

Yes, Symbian has a great featureset, there is no denying that an yes a lot of the stuff that Symbian had is not available in Windows Phone, or iOS or even Android.

Symbian had also turned into a cluncky messy OS which was a nightmare to debug and work on it has so much bolted on that in general fixing one thing would break three others. For it to move beyond the relatively basic hardware possibilities of the last gen phones it would have required a virtual from the ground up rewrite. This was at the time simply not an option as Nokia would probably not have survived that. Instead they opted to go with WP and build on that.

FInally, as this debate is never going to end, please choose whichever phone/OS you like, but accept that Symbian is gone and won't come back. You can feel however you feel but that will not change, ever.. So it would seem best to move on.

[Manu_T]

"t's not encrupted and there are a number of free tools available to get all your contact data from your PC. Second, if your PC gets stolen your data is gone."

1) Nobody but me touches my PC. 

2) if my PC gets stolen (which happens every day of course) it's secured with a password and login. The drives itself are bitlocker-encripted with a TPM-chip.

"Oh and where do you think your POP based email goes to or is stored, I'll give you one guess."

Email is NOT the same as my contacts database!

"Hotmail, Outlook.com and gmail are just POP/IMAP mail servers with a webmail frontend like any other. In fact I am pretty sure they have quite a bit stronger security and encryption compared to your average hosted mail server in an everyday data centre or even your companies Exchange server which, again will be hosted in... wait for it.... 'The Cloud'."

Email is NOT the same as my personal Addressbook!

In fact my domestic ISP probably has my POP-email in ASCI-text on his servers.... that is..  until I download them into my local outlook-email-client, which erase my mailbox upon retrieving the messages.

"I can tell you where Microsoft has their datacentre in say the Netherlands and you go try get information from them, any information."

Unless I show them a badge with the letters "FBI". 

Again. Email is less of a problem to me. just as bookmarks are less of a problem to me either.

It's my CONTACTS-Database that is of importance!

And yes, someone can STEAL my phone. But as soon they insert another SIM-card my phone gets locked (in Symbian --> settings --> telephone --> management --> security --> phone & SIM-card) not to mention I can remotely lock my phone by SMS.

Which renders that stolen device unusable without a factory reset (in which case they STILL haven't retrieved my contacts)

[paulheu]

This discussion is pointless and I have no intention of continuing to feed the trolls here. All you do is start arguments and hijacking threads where you have no business doing so since you do not even use a WP device or seem to have any interest in doing so.

Symbian is no more. It's gone and will remain gone. If you do not like Windows Phone that's fine, you have your choice of alternatives. PLEASE pick one and go with them.

I'm done now.. no point in any of this beyond this point..

[BillOxshott]

How do I stop recieving answers to this thread before I die of ennui. I don't want to unsubscribe from all Noika discussions just this one. Please, please. pretty please. There must be at least one bright Noika user who know how.

Thanks in advance