peterh338: Thanks for your reply. I agree that Nokia needs to document a problem and any possible fixes openly, as far as they can.
I would like to avoid the conversation veering back again to the HSPA bug. I started this thread to establish whether or not a recent software update is causing some process to run havoc in the background and drain my battery quickly. The HSPA bug appears so widespread that it can generate 39 pages of discussion on the relevant thread, whereas I am slightly concerned that only a small minority of 808 users have had this sudden battery drain issue, judging by the tiny response so far. We should try and remain on topic, encouraging anyone else with this recent issue to speak out and contribute.
All the indications point away from this being a hardware issue. Short of doing a hard reset myself or passing over to my local NCP who are likely to do the same hard reset, there appears to be nothing else we can do to isolate the problem.
Does anyone have any other suggestions or advice?
Assuming you can confirm that your phone is not making 3G connections of unknown purpose, this may help:
Basically it switches off all wireless connectivity after 5 or 10 minutes - except connections which are active at the time like bluetooth in the car. It is also disabled if external power is connected (configurable, with other stuff).
I am experimenting with it to see whether it makes the HSPA bug irrelevant, by turning off 3G most of the time the phone is just sitting there. We shall see.
I have found only one issue with it so far: when I get into the car, I do have to connect external power, or I have to unlock the phone, so bluetooth comes back on, before the car is started, otherwise the hands free kit doesn't find the phone. I wish bluetooth could be left on all the time, but there is no config for that.
Thanks peterh338 - looks useful as a temporary fix, except of course completely crazy to have to install yet another app to correct a problem that has apparently begun as a result of an update / installation of certain files.
Nokia support staff have been in touch and I will report back on any news. One interesting thing is that – following their advice to try this out – in offline mode, the phone idles at such a low power rate that it doesn't even register on the W/mA views of Energy Profiler, compared to the previous tests I've run and detailed in this thread.
2013-03-28 18:02 - edited 2013-03-28 18:04
As I reported earlier I had the same issue as biotron for about 7 days. It was very frustrating, so I started switching off all things that might cause the huge battery drain. During that period I noticed in the Battery monitor that the top energy consumers are not in the main apps, but in the background apps. You can not see the exact percentages, but in total background drain was showing about 80% during one day of usage. The apps listed in background were: Sleeping screen, Gallery, Weather, Qoosystem and Whatsapp. So, I removed the weather widget and turned off the weather forecast process with appstop, removed the qoosystem widged from the homescreen, and used Stop whasapp (by hueliff) to kill Whatsapp. You think it worked? No... The battery was almost drained and the phone was about to die. I had a feeling that it was the wifi that it's causing the battery drain. Then I remembered I still have the SIS file of the wlan update that was issued by Nokia beta labs in january on my phone. I turned off my wifi via the dropdown menu and started the installation (although I already installed it before). The installation completed and I turned my phone off. When it rebooted it was showing 0% of battery left. I quickly connected my charger and it showed it is charging and it will take 120 minutes to charge. I remembered this info and let it charge. When I woke up in the morning I checked the Battery monitor and it turned out it was charging 135 minutes during the night. I used the phone normally during that day and in the evening I had over 90% battery left! I mannaged to empty the battery to 30% the next day, but used it like mad and doing all the things I was avoiding few days ago. The next day I was putting back the widgets and apps (weather, qoosystem, vlingo etc.) I removed, waitting for the increase in battery drain, but nothing happened. The only thing that I still didn't turn on is Whatsapp. That's the next thing I'm going to do. The background consumers in Battery monitor are down to 10% during one day, which is much better and more logical then 80% I had few days ago. One more thing, during the several days I had the battery drain problem, I noticed that the charging period was much shorter then now. When the phone was almost empty and I connect it to the charger it would show only 50-60 minutes of charging, while the percentage would jump to around 50% few minutes after the start of charging. As I remember it, and it's like that now, it should take about 2 hours to fully recharge. So, it might be that something got corrupted in the charging process and the battery would stop charging before it is actually fully charged. I still have some testing to do, but these are my observations so far, which I hope will help somebody else solving this problem.
Hi again Samirsga
That's really interesting, thanks for your input. I removed the Weather app altogether a while back thinking it was part of the problem. I also had Whatsapp installed but never used it – so uninstalled that too... and Sleeping Screen was usually high on the list of background app energy consumers in Battery Monitor, so I also blitzed that.
Now, I almost never have my WiFI on, and if I do need it, I'll use the dropdown menu to toggle on and then off again once done. Apart from this fact, I can identify with almost everything else you write – including the observation about faster charging than previously used to be the case, although not quite as extremely quickly as you describe.
I'm currently waiting for Nokia support staff to respond to my latest message, but perhaps this is worth having a look at in the interim... If it is related to WiFi, and if it works for me in the way you say it has worked for you, it would seem to imply that the dropdown toggle is not actually turning the WiFi off even when indicated, and somehow my battery drain is continuing – which would be very strange indeed, and something that never used to happen but did suddenly begin happening for some reason early in March, after the only thing I installed for months was the Gallery / Camera software update.
So, out of interest, I installed the Beta Labs WLAN software update (released 20-12-2012) and it has made no difference at all after reboot. Energy Profiler, even with 3G and WiFi turned off, shows the idling rate at around 220mA / 0.89W – same as before.
2013-03-29 7:30 - edited 2013-03-29 7:41
When I was playing around with terminating background processes (the few shown by Appstop; there are much better apps for that sort of thing) I found that the weather app accounted for a lot of power drain. As did the Maps app.
But I was unable to reproduce this later.
I think the high battery drain is caused by the phone running some strange processes which go online and send a lot of data. But they don't always send the data. Maps Improvement is the only one I know about which is supposed to do this officially, but there may be others.
This is common with mobiles. Our Iphone4 and Ipad2 are constantly sending stuff back to the Church of Jobs - as evident from the almost permanent NAT sessions visible on my router.
In fact I suspect the Maps Improvement on/off setting is defective, because if I take the phone for a drive, with the map app running, afterwards I see the 3G indicator active for possibly hours. The phone is obviously online doing something. Terminating the Maps app (Appstop) stops this instantly. If the phone is running on HSPA, the battery life (with GPS etc) will be only a few hours.
One could isolate the cause by disabling 3G and disabling wifi, and leaving that for a few days. The phone will still work, for voice, and you will get slow data (c. 30kbits/sec) over GPRS which is OK for small emails, and satnav where it should just download current traffic data.
I'm currently waiting for Nokia support staff to respond to my latest message
You would be lucky to get anything out of them They read these forums and feed stuff back but they will never say anything indicating there is a specific bug - unless it is something totally widespread like the HSPA one.
2013-03-29 11:33 - edited 2013-03-29 11:36
Ok. I don't know whats gone wrong. My phone's battery hasn't drastically reduced to anything like 4 hours or so.
But now, my battery lasts for 15-18hrs after full charge. First it was two days (IIRC).
The thing is i updated my phone around last week. Didn't notice anything when this thread has started, but yesterday after installing the belle extra buttons app, the battery indicator in that app shows me after a full charge in mAh to about 1290mAh. After all the battery capacity is 1400mAh. (Don't know if the app is showing some false result)
My daily usage from past two three months are
So this is my usage in a day. So the battery should last more than 15-18hrs?
As said, i'm experiencing this now.
Before too my usage was same but it needed a charge next day and not the same day when the phone's battery was fully charged. Now i've to charge it the same day.
I don't know what is that, a bug, battery issue or something else.
If its related to some bug in the recent update, then Nokia might know about it, if not then they should now come to know.
So this is my usage in a day. So the battery should last more than 15-18hrs?
Not really , IMHO.
That is pretty heavy usage. No smartphone will last more than a day if doing wifi data all day. Even the Ipad2, with its batteries that practically fill the entire space inside it, lasts less than a day in that usage.
I have / have had 2 x E51, 2 x 700, 1 x 808. All would last only 1 whole day in light usage (few calls, some emails, no video). Doing satnav (GPS+3G+screen on) about 4hrs. Doing wifi tethering (Joikuspot) from 3G/HSPA, maybe 2hrs.
Currently I am testing the 808 with the battery saver prog from "MrAlshawavi" and it looks like it might make 1 day + 1 night + 1 day, doing a few calls, GPS on all the time, but in the reduced power mode most of the time (no 3G and no BT). That's pretty damn good for any smartphone to be usable for 2 days. Nothing I've had since the 6310i would make that (the 6310i - the best phone ever made - would run for a week).
If the screen is on all the time, a few hours is good going no matter what else it is doing.
So this is my usage in a day. So the battery should last more than 15-18hrs?
Not really , IMHO.
That is pretty heavy usage.
So you mean thats totaally fine? Ok but i don't go on whatsapp-ing all the day long
And yeah i will also try the power saver app. And will have to check with some power saving tips ;-)
I may try what you have suggested in coming days, to further isolate the cause... but believe it or not, Nokia support staff contacted me first after reading this thread with quite a comprehensive set of questions, with further promise to send on a software tool directly to the phone for further diagnostics. I am still waiting for this tool (it is the Easter weekend, after all) and hopeful that something will come back soon.
This may be a reasonably uncommon problem, or perhaps even something specific to my handset, but I am quite interested to know where I stand in relation to the Amazon warranty having installed a firmware update on the product after buying it. I have been happy with Nokia products for years and am encouraged that they are obviously reading these forums and have chosen to get in touch.
I'd agree with peterh338 that your figures show quite heavy usage. Even with every possible element of the phone optimised for power saving, and using power-hungry applications quite a bit less than the times you are quoting here, I'd have been generally pretty happy to get 15-18 hours out of my 808.
Nokia still reportedly have ~1000 people working (outsourced) at Accenture on Symbian and related stuff.
And if I was them I would definitely want to find out what is causing this - not least because they are selling these phones officially with contracts (i.e. not in the "UK no-warranty hand washing mode" via amazon) in the USA.
So I am glad to hear you are getting some response.
I just wish they put some effort into fixing the HSPA/3G bug as well. If they fix that, the 808 is going to be a really "perfect" phone.
I didn't realise the phones are on contracts in the USA!
Now awaiting the diagnositc tool for download from my personal email address and expecting to send results to Nokia for analysis this week, hopefully. I'll report back with any new information. It seems a little strange that hardly anyone else has experienced anything like this problem after the update... and I reckon I've safely eliminated any third party apps, given how relatively few I had installed when the issue arose, and now that I have virtually none of the phone at all except diagnostic tools – still the drain continues.
Agree with you that apart from these small quirks (that turn out to be quite major problems for some) in all other respects the 808 is a tremendous phone.
Reading the various bits online there appear to be people in the USA who got the 808 from their network i.e. very likely on a contract. Very few networks give out phones on PAYG.
The American-market 808s are crippled, with some config menus missing so e.g. you cannot set up your own APN. Apple did the same with the Iphone. Basically the network has been given a capability to determine, via some config on the SIM card, which parts of the phone config are to be concealed. Apple made this screw-up in the UK on unlocked Iphones too, and the APN menu was suppressed. I know; I bought one
The 808 is a great phone. I am running the battery saver prog by that Egyptian bloke. The usable life of the phone has gone up from ~ 24hrs to almost 72hrs (very light usage admittedly, but still amazing for any smartphone) and even though I have HSPA enabled the phone has not once crashed - undoubtedly because the saver prog disables 3G which totally sidesteps any crashes when the phone is not interacted with.
2013-04-04 9:09 - edited 2013-04-04 9:28
confirmed on my 808:
Opened galery/locked screen: 0.43W power drain
no gallery/locked screen: 0.04W power drain, which is the normal idle for Symbian with the big clock on.
So .. keep your galery closed until they fix it.
edit. Scratch that.. I tied again, and.. it couldn't replicete the result I got the first ime I tested it. Maybe it was connected to wi-fi or.. i dunno.
it couldn't replicete the result I got the first ime I tested it.
The usual story, which I found too.
I thought I had the high power usage nailed, by killing the Maps, Weather, etc processes. And killing Maps worked with 100% reliability for a week or more. But not any more; they seem to be OK now.
I think some Nokia code doesn't release control to the O/S when it should, so runs the CPU at 100% in a tight loop.
You can get the same running old DOS apps under Windows (XP for example) in the DOS box. 100% CPU time.
The battery life on a phone is absolutely dependent on processes releasing themselves when they have nothing to do, and if one doesn't... I wrote a multitasking O/S for the old Z80/180/280 CPUs, so did all this stuff a long time ago. But back then the power drawn by the CPU was constant no matter what code it was running. Today it varies a lot.
There is no reason why Gallery should draw power like that (after all, it just renders jpegs!!!) but there must be a stupid bug. Try not using Gallery and using e.g. PhotoBook. It does a lot more anyway (upload to Photobucket for example).
2013-04-04 17:14 - edited 2013-04-04 17:15
Well Symbian handles multitasking in a very.. "desktop" like way, there is a reason why most other mobile platforms "freeze" apps in the background
The kernel itself is very cool actually, you might enjoy reading this considering your background: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=15
Anyway, I've been very happy with the battery life on my 808 since I got it.. granted, I have a cfw on mine, but still.. very good for my usage. I get 10-15 hours with heavy usage.
The real problem with all Symbian phones is that the SoCs they use don't have the 3G radio integrated like the new ones. However, the 2G radio is.., and I think that's why talk time almost doubles on 2G.
2013-04-04 18:24 - edited 2013-04-04 18:28
The battery saver app basically just disables 3G and bluetooth, and produces a massive battery life increase, from 1 day+night to about 3.
So 3G draws a great deal of power, all the time, even when there is no mobile data being used.
I don't think bluetooth draws anything much.
Interesting link - thanks. I gather that Nokia's open sourcing was worthless because they didn't release the sources to any apps or the telephony stack. But it probably helped the massive hacking scene, where you can flash custom firmware into the phone.