I have posted this reply elsewhere, but since I too am experiencing the exact same problem with a N85, I think my experiences are better posted here:
Before anybody suggests to check for duplicate contacts, NO I have deleted ALL contacts from the SIM card and phone memory and tried with a single record, being my other mobile phone. While I'm not saying okinawa & Co are wrong and you may be right that this problem CAN be caused by duplicate contacts, it does NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE!!!
Apart from the 9/10-digit bug okinawa lists as his/her final point, and interestingly I cannot find mention of this phenomenon anywhere else, none of the suggested causes or solutions work.
I have come to the conclusion that this is primarily a problem caused by a bug in Nokia's Symbian OS, which is simply unable to match a contact record containing a country code (e.g. +61412345678) to a non-internationalised version, if you will, of the very same number, i.e. 0412345678.
That said I must also point out that the problem at hand is of course in no way helped by a mobile carrier (in my case Vodafone Australia) sending the caller ID for calls without +XX country codes while at the same time including the country code, as they well should, in SMS text messages, which is why SMS senders are corectly identified by my N85.
Now theoretically Symbian's incapability to make the best of Vodafone (and I guess others') incomplete caller IDs is no wonder, since a missing country code cannot unambiguously be resubstituted by mere guessing. Just imagine you have two contacts with similar numbers only varying in their country code, e.g. +6112345 and +4912345. There is no way of matching a caller to either of the two contacts that is identified by the network operator as 12345. Which btw would be the reason for the famous duplicate record error. In programming terms: if matchingRecordCount != 1 caller ID not unanimous, caller cannot be IDed
HOWEVER that exact same task, due to the simple fact that I must have no such rare partial matches in all my many contacts (I've read somewhere that, when working, Nokia only compares max! the last 7 digits), has never been a problem at all for any of my previous Nokia phones (all the way back to the mid-late 90s!!!) running older/different operating systems. For example my current backup phone being a Series 40 Nokia 6300, operating on NokiaOS (Intelligent System Architecture.
So unless Nokia can make their case and convince me otherwise the culprit is quite clear to me. Nokia has some extremely urgent bugfixing to do here. From similar postings in other forumsI have learned that the Apple iPhone has had some similar problems with caller ID matching, which have quickly and efficiently been fixed in the meantime so I hope that Nokia is already working on this problem. An official statement would be most welcome guys!
Otherwise I will, sad though it is, see no other choice but to turn my back on my preferred mobile phone manufacturer after over ten years, and make my next business phone a Blackberry or Android device.
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Do you store your contacts on the SIM card or use the more practical phone memory?
I personally never save any contacts on the SIM because I like to keep all numbers, email adresses and other details for each contact person together.
I might try what happens if I use the SIM.
2009-01-27 12:04 - edited 2009-01-27 12:06
I use the phone's memory. It is far more practical than the SIM in that you can store multiple numbers per contact, e-mail addresses and much more.
The inability to recognize a number might well be an operator issue. I'm on T-Mobile UK, you're on another operator.
I have over 4000 posts here because I've been an active member of this community for nearly 2 years now.
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I think it must be a SW bug.
I've got all my contacts in phone memory, in intl version (+), not duplicated.
My log shows sometimes number, sometimes name. And only God knows why.
I send a sms (log displays name), I get answer (log displays number), the same is with calls. Something like roulette.
It is very annoying.
I will hopefully get the phone unlocked by the end of the week, then I can try with two other network operators. (Currently on Vodafone, will try Optus and 3)
I'll keep you all posted, but my money's still on a firmware bug.
*** LET ME BEGIN BY SAYING, THE PHONE THAT HAS THE PROBLEM HAS NO DUPLICATE NUMBERS IN THE CONTACTS. ALL CONTACTS DELETED EXCEPT FOR ONE CONTACT ***
I have 2 Nokia N85's (one belongs to my wife), and I can confirm that this is a firmware issue, BUT, only related to SOME custom firmware revisions. Here's the deal. I bought 2 N85s from Telechoice (Australia), both were unbranded. One of them had the dreaded clicking/falling to pieces buttons around the Navi-Wheel, so we took it back to the dealer, and he replaced it with an Optus branded N85. So, to clarify:
My Phone (Unbranded): FW 10.045 (10-09-2008), Custom version 10.045.246.1 (12-11-08)
Wife Phone (Branded): FW 10.045 (10-09-2008), Custom version 10.045.244.1 (23-10-08)
My phone can recognise the contact for an SMS received, and duly substittute the +61..... number for a contact name. My wife's phone cannot. So I thought, no problems, all numbers "should" be stored with there International Country Codes, so I'll just change the mobile numbers to include the Country Code prefix (and drop the leading zero, of course). Wrong - this allows the SMS to have the contact name, however, when the person calls you, their name does not show up, just their number (because Australian operators send mobile phone numbes without the country codes, and SMS' with country codes).
So this leaves one very stupid "apparent" solution to this problem, add two mobile numbers, one with a country code, one without. WRONG, this allows the SMS to show the contact name but the Caller ID when the person calls still does not work (and rightly so, because the phone recognises the two mobile numbers as duplicates when the person calls, but the SMS application does not).
Remember, I have two N85's, same base firmware revision, just different custom versions, and only one has this problem. Nokia really need to address this problem, because SMS is a core functionality that can't be used if you don't know who's sending you messages.
Thanks travla/Kirk. A much appreciated observation.
Just for the sake of cempleteness, here are the details of my buggy firmware:
SW version: 11.047 (19-11-08)
Custom version: 11.047.227.3 (15-12-08)
Language set: 013 (Also a bad joke, since apart from English this gives me the oh so useful Vietnamese and Filipino dictionaries for T9, but no German, Spanish or French)
This is the latest firmware, no updates available.
The phone is branded by Vodafone Australia.
I bought my wife a Nokia N85 to replace her Nokia N73. The N85 is a Vodafone branded device, the N73 was an unbranded model on 3. Both are syncing with outlook 2007 (dialling properties area code set to 0 and phone numbes imported from CVS to bypass outlook autoformat ). The format of the numbers in outlook and in the phone are 0400000000 - no spaces, no country code. I imported the numbers into a database and checked for duplicates (removing all spaces, dashes and the string "+61" replaced with "0" on import). There were none. This same list of numbers worked perfectly on the N73. I originally removed the country codes because they seemed to break MMS on the N73 on the 3 network. Having played with this for a few hours now - it appears that I can either get the numbers to show up correctly for voice calls - or for sms - but not both.
My firmware versions are:
software version : 11.047
software version date : 19-11-2008
custom version : 11.047.227.3
custom version date : 15-12-08
language set 013
This makes the phone practically useless in my wifes eyes and means it does not fulfil the role it was purchased for. Is it possible to flash it with a custom firmware that works? I have heard mention that only the last 7 digits of the number are checked for a match - so you may have duplicates based on the limited sample size even though you really don't have duplicates. If this subset has been increased to the full field size or anything > 9 - then this problem would occur. If they changed the compare subset to 9 - then almost all issues would be resolved.
At least the camera is ok - that's the only reason I bought the Nokia over the iPhone. Well that and syncing with outlook and the size. If Vodafone or Nokia can't get this sorted - I will return the phone and cancel the contract as in this state, the phone is not of merchantable quality. Annoying though as we are switching 300 phones over from Telstra to Vodafone. Does anyone know if this will affect the Nokia 6300 as well - these are the phones to be delivered.
No worries mate, as I said further up this thread, I also own a 6300 and that's doing the job just fine. I only use internationalised notation including +XX country codes since I travel to Europe regularly. The 6300 has always displayed the correct caller and sender of SMS messages.
I am also thinking about returning this phone and cancelling my contract if Nokia/Vodafone cannot sort this problem out and fast. As it is the phone is absolutely useless, especially as a business phone. I love the rest, features, handling, everything. But what good is it if I cannot even see who's calling.
Let's hope Nokia is on the bug hunt.
You can help by sending Nokia and Vodafone an email a complaint.
I'm doing this right now.
Excellent news everyone!!!
I have emailed Nokia about the problem and asked them to please comment on this issue to end our speculations once and for all whether or not this is a firmware bug or something else.
[Message:I have recently purchased an N85 and have the following problem.
When I receive calls the phone does not display the caller's name, instead it shows me the number making it virtually impossible to know who is calling. Incoming TXT message senders are identified correctly.
I have stored all my contacts in international format (+XX4567...) in the phone's memory (no contacts on SIM) and have made sure that there are no duplicate entries (not a single number is listed under two different names)
After some research on the web including your own discussion forum I have learned that I am not alone with this problem. Please see the following threads:
It appears to be a bug in Symbian S60 and I really hope your developers are already aware of it and working on a fix.
I say again that it is NOT caused by duplicate contacts. The problem persists even with just a single contact on either (never both!!) the phone memory or SIM card: Incoming call = no ID/name, incoming TXT = correct ID. Also when storing the number in non-international format, without +XX country code but rather in the form 04567..., the display is exactly vice versa. Call=correct, TXT=no name
I do have the latest firmware installed.
As it is, the mobile is nothing short of useless, especially as a business phone.
It seems many people are waiting for an official statement judging by the above links.
Thanks in advance and kind regards,
And here the response I got:
We are definitely aware of issue that you have mentioned in your email. Rest assured that we have escalated this to our technical team and are currently waiting for a fix.
We will definitely keep you updated on this.
Thank you for highlighting this to us and please be a little patient with us while we work out a resolution.
Please contact us at 1300 366 733
I'm just glad to finally know it's not worth trying anymore to find out what we are all doing wrong.
Let's hope the tech folks at Nokia can patch the poor patient up soon and a simple firmware update will sort this problem out for us.
IMHO an honest statement from Nokia that something is indeed wrong and they're working on it most definitely beats dealing with endless speculations and official concealment. For that, my thanks to Nokia.
It seems the N85 (and perhaps other S60 phones) are bad, in general, at knowing how to match phone numbers... and that includes phone numbers that are themselves stored in the phone and dialed on the phone... see this:
After struggling for around 4 weeks to get my wifes "Optus" N85 changed to a Generic phone via Telechoice, I bumped in to a store owner and got talking about this problem with him. Anyway, he said that he had already got 3 returns for this very problem, and he said it was a no brainer, just take it back to the Nokia Care Centre and they can fix the problem for you.
This was on Friday afternoon, and I was a little apprehensive, but anyway, the Melbourne Care centre is open on Saturdays between 9:00 - 1:00, so I thought I'd pay them a visit. The guy at the desk was new, but he knew exactly about the problem we were having. He said the only fix they have was to "debrand" the phone N85 to a Generic N85. He said the Optus firmware had a problem and it was in Finland awaiting a fix with no update as to when it would be released. I told him that we always wanted an "unbranded" phone, he said he could do it there an then for us.
After 10 minutes, my wifes N85 was a Generic one and was showing names for SMS' received and Caller ID, regardless of phone numbers being entered as 04xx or +614xx. I quizzed hime a little, and he told me that he did change the product code to enable him to apply the firmware. I asked about warranty implications, and he said that when a Nokia Care Centre change a product code, it is completely different to when an end user does it, and it would definitely not be a problem. Anyway, all in all, very happy. I also updated my N85 (generic), which never had this problem, and can report that SMS' and Caller ID's are working fine post update. Here are the 2 versions details for those interested:
Wifes Phone (was Optus Firmware, now Generic):
Software Version 11.047
Software Version Date 19-11-2008
Custom Version 11.047.53.1
Custom Version Date 19-11-2008
My Phone (Generic product code)
Software Version 11.047
Software Version Date 19-11-2008
Custom Version 11.047.246.2
Custom Version Date 15-01-2009
Hope some of the other users experiencing this problem have some luck fixing it - and if you do, report back so others can learn from your experience!!!!
Hi Travla and all.
We have previously sought clarification of the issues surrounding phone branding but this is not easy to obtain. All users should be aware of the reason for this difficulty: what a Nokia Care point is permitted to do is often a decision by the national Nokia sales office in your country or region rather than global policy, so what you can expect from your local centre may vary depending on where you are in the world.
Ordinarily, the only universal circumstance in which an NCP may change a device product code is when issuing a replacement device under warranty. The replacement device will be changed to the same code as the one being replaced, and (most importantly) the NCP will produce a new product identity label reflecting the change. The last part is important because if you ever present your device for warranty repair and the code does not match the label and/or the NSU history shows an apparent discrepancy, then your warranty may not be honoured.
It is in some countries possible for a an NCP to change a phone's software from branded to generic as described by Travla, although they must only do this if the device has had any SIM-lock officially removed by the network operator concerned. Some NCPs may request written consent from the operator in order to 'cover themselves' and ensure that the network has approved the prior removal of the SIM-lock (in other words that the user has not unlocked the device by unofficial means) and approves of the software being changed. Just like in the above paragraph, it is equally important that your NCP has produced a new identity label reflecting the work that they have carried out on your behalf.
2009-02-09 12:14 - edited 2009-02-09 12:22
Too bad I can only give you my Kudos once, because your tip was right on the money.
My N85 is no longer Vodafone branded and the problem is solved. Like you say, caller ID works now for calls, SMS and in the caller log.
Of course it took the people in my local Nokia Care Point in Chatswood (Sydney North) quite some convincing before I couldwalk out with a debranded phone after 4!!! hours.
The first support desk clerk told me unbranding would cost me $50 as fixing this problem was not a warranty issue. The second, after the first simply disappeared in the back room in the middle of my consultation, told me changing the firmware was even technically impossible and offered to install a supposed newer version of the Vodafone firmware instead. Interestingly only hours earlier trying to update via the Nokia PC Suite Software Updater and also directly from the phone failed - No updates available!
Anyhow, I agreed to the Vodafone to Vodafone+1 update which was supposed to take no more than one hour. Over two hours later I had a phone with the latest Vodafone firmware, no more contacts / settings (of course I backed everything up at home) and the same old bug. Unfortunately I didn't check the supposedly newer firmware version via *#0000#so let's just believe there really is a newer Vodafone branded version than SW version: 11.047 (19-11-08) & Custom version: 11.047.227.3 (15-12-08). But where's the point if it cannot fix the main issue at hand.
And after now nearly 3 hours I finally got lucky when one of the actual technicians came out of the workshop on his way home and when asked about the problem confirmed that it was a known issue and could at the current time only be fixed by debrandingthe phone. That said the care center head clerk finally agreed that this was obviously a problem with the phone's software and as such of course an issue covered by the warranty. I got my generic firmware, the update taking only around 10-15 minutes as for travla. Problem solved.
I honestly couldn't care less if or what mobile operator's logo appears when I start my phone, I just want to know who's call I just missed without having to know every number in my phone book.
So my recommendation to anybody else facing this problem is to go down to your local Nokia Care Center, if you're lucky enough to one reasonably near by, and get the debranded firmware. To save a lot of time and keep the stress levels at bay, I also recommend you ask to get a technician involved as soon as possible, because they obviously seem to know about the problem only too well.
So, once again, thanks travla for the tip.
P.S.: michaels, I did not get a new product label as you suggested, even though I specifically asked about it. I was told this was not necessary and that debranding by a Nokia Care Point technician, as documented by the receipt I got, would not void my warranty.
I did however follow your advice and remove the SIM lock BEFORE going to the care center using the official unlock code I received directly from Vodafone (www.vodafone.com.au/unlock) and documented this by a screen print and even a photo.
You got me worried with your response, and I rushed back to the Nokia Care Centre and asked for a product identity label as per your post. The lady at the front counter looked bamboozled, and promptly got a technician out to chat. I showed him your post, and he told me that in fact my Nokia product code had NOT been changed, which contradicted what the other technician had told me. He assured me that the original product code on the label was still the product code of the phone, and the genericf firmware was installed over the to. He said only an authorised Nokia Care Centre is able to do this (legally, that is).
Glad to hear you got your problem resolved, it's just disappointing that they put you through so much pain. It goes without saying to other users that patience and perserverance is required, along with a bit of luck. It seems debranding phones is something Nokia rarely want to do, but as you said, the most important thing here is phone functionality.
Cheers about the Kudos - I'm not stressed, about receiving any, it's just cool that users can interact with each other on an open discussion forum and (sometimes) help each other out. On that count, Nokia gets an A+.
Thanks for all the helpful information here.
I took receival of a Vodafone N85 the other day and other than this error I find the phone to be a phenomenal improvement over my late model Motorola in every regard. It stores far more data, plays music a heap better, with better hands free set allowing any choice of headphones I want, a decent camera (2.0mp seems to be as far as motorola gets) faster internet, awesome reception (i couldn't call out from my apartment without walking to a window) and most importantly - the ability to run racechrono software so i can do GPS lap timing on my motorcycle trackdays =)
I am in the process of putting your advice use, having unlocked the phone this morning and then heading to the NCP here in Chatswood, only to be told they wouldn't do it and to return the handset to vodafone for replacement, or it would cost me $50au. I called vodafone to check if this was correct and after a long winded process I have been credited $50 to my next bill so I can go back to NCP and get the standard firmware installed. But if I hadn't read this thread first I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on (I have always - ALWAYS - hated vodafone bloat/software on my phones).