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Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 custome...

Counsellor
leafy_bug
Posts: 40

Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

What fuels this 'where is Anna' fire is the devices you launched with it. It is another slap in the face truth be told. There are so many people out there with issues, problems and in desperate need for this update yet Nokia ignores them and start selling new products with this so called operating system. I for one am done with Nokia. I am using the N8 less and less nowadays and in the rare event that I do go out, I take it for the camera and not for what it can do. Let's be honest, the N8 can do many things but at a mediocre level. This is so 2005 and Nokia seems to not care that they are alienating their faithful customers. 

 

Bottom line my dear Nokia, you've managed to convince me to buy something else in the near future. I've used Nokia phones since the banana phone came out but I guess all good things must come to an end. 

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Mobile Sensei
chanchan05
Posts: 8,090

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Anna update is scheduled to be launched with the X7....at about the same time. Those devices aren't even launched yet (expected pre-order deliveries are at June 17 US). Anyway, if you go for a different operating system, the folks at forum.dailymobile.se could help you out with questions you need to ask once you do, or in choosing a phone.
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Sage
ices_eyes
Posts: 141

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

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Mobile Sensei
chanchan05
Posts: 8,090

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Well, ok, that puts the tentative release date a Nokia employee told me to be wrong....So that means Anna is finished....that's kinda early considering the dates I was given/told.
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Counsellor
Wishmaker
Posts: 47

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Many were blaming OPK for how bad Nokia was performing. Now, under new management, things have not improved. How long since Elop took over? 8-9 months? It seems to me that there hasn't been any significant change. I do agree that OPK has forced Nokia on a very rigid path but he kept the company's identity, whereas Elop has taken away that identify by signing with Microsoft. If memory serves, Otellini from Intel said that it was a mistake to partner up with Nokia on MeeGo. It seems that not only customers complain but also industry innovators. Surely there is something very wrong within Nokia. 

 

 

If we look at the bright side, who would not want to work in a company where deadlines do not matter? Nokia is a good example of such a company. There is no deadline, only ambiguous targets.  In any other competitive company, people who don't deliver on time would be fired. The move to Accenture and the 7000 people whom will be fired are not fired for failing to deliver a product at a given date. Are fired or whatever because Nokia has rid themselves of Symbian. 


How can we, the Symbian users, ignore these things and be happy that Nokia delivers when they do? Why should we be satisfied with mediocre service? Look at the purple screen fiasco. My N8 has a purple screen problem and even after 3 months Nokia Care Point hasn't got a tangible solution. I've been to three different Nokia Care Points and nobody can fix the issue. Most of them say it is normal. Unbelievable.


My Dear Nokia, if in the past you were the pride of Europe, today you are the same of Europe. You've become the laughing stock of the mobile computing world and Symbian users are not Apple folk that fall for any marketing gimmick.  It is very sad that you are insulting our intelligence with these cover ups but as you can see it does not work. You've tried to take a page out of the Apple brainwash book but you've forgotten your place. Nokia exists because of us, the customers and given the situation, there will be some suffering when the quarterly results come in. 

 

Nokia, can't you see that what you built in a decade was erased by Apple in a few years? Can't you see that we don't want broken products anymore? Can't you see that we don't want to pay you to make us your beta testing community? Can't you see that we are fed up of compromises? Have a look in your official forums and count how many threads exist with the N8 and Symbian^3 problems. 

 

In my view, my dearest Nokia, you knew what a lemon Symbian^3 was and you were counting on these promised updates and our loyalty to fix it. Then Elop gave you your burning platform memo, signed with Microsoft and the lemons remained lemons. Nokia you seem to have given up on the hand that feeds you. This is a fatal mistake in this competitive industry. You will end up in the situation where your survival will depend on Microsoft buying you out. This will be a more brutal end than bankruptcy.


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Counsellor
leafy_bug
Posts: 40

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

As a loyal Nokia fan it saddens me to see how Nokia fails to collate the feedback we give. We've been trying to help Nokia out since the iPhone shocked the market but our voice has been ignored. I am sure the board does not like being told what to do but when you fail so many times to take out a product that cannot compete then you need to think outside of the box. 



I have seen many bloggers claiming that the current management cannot be faulted. While I agree that inertia in a global company like Nokia cannot be corrected over night, I do not agree with the way Nokia is treating its soon to be departed customers. Let us go back down memory lane for a second. The Nokia N8, the most advanced smartphone ever created by Nokia, was announced in April 2010. Due to many delays it shipped in September / October 2010. The first batch had broken motherboards, thousands of devices plagued and the second had the purple screen fiasco, yet again thousands of devices plagued. 


So on the hardware reliability front, Nokia a huge resounding ZERO. Now many of you had no issues with the N8 but I know people who changed 3-4 devices and all ended up dying. Surely we cannot ignore this aspect. 


Let us look on the software front now. Symbian ^3 unpolished buggy and unreliable powers this N8 monster. PR 1.1 was crashing wifi routers, rebooting whenever you try to connect to a corporate network, would not detect headsets, would constantly drain your battery without you knowing via either non stop wifi connections or operator connections, would refuse to connect on demand, etc. Now PR 1.2 came out and it took 3 months to deploy.  Of course PR 1.2 was not on time but the way it was being handled you would think they learned something with this so called Anna. 


Why do I say this? Well, PR 1.2 showed up after Elop announced the partnership but assured everyone that Symbian users will not suffer. To support this, what did they do? They gave PR 1.2 device by device. I have friends with N8 phones still on PR 1.1!!! After we all complained, you expect Nokia to expedite matters and take in consideration what we say? Did they do that? No, they totally ignored us and ANNA is nowhere in sight for current customers. 

I am sorry but I refuse to accept that as an old customer, using a phone that was launched in April and given Nokia's policy to improve the buggy phone, I am not entitled to the ANNA update before these new products ship.

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Sage
Henker
Posts: 127

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Wishmaker, this is a great summary and also a great prediction of what will happen to Nokia.
No need to add anything, just a "me too".
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Mobile Guru
Posts: 2,569

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

 


chanchan05 wrote:
Well, ok, that puts the tentative release date a Nokia employee told me to be wrong....So that means Anna is finished....that's kinda early considering the dates I was given/told.

No mate, everything you were told is correct and Anna is not ready for existing S^3 yet.

 

"And fear not Nokia N8, E7, C7 and C6 fans – Symbian Ann(a) will be available for you in the coming months."

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Sage
lvvine
Posts: 273

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Guys,

 

Lets Congrats Nokia for getting the Sales Down in Q2, Handsets sales have gone down.

 

Customers are moving out very fast, May be soon Nokia will be known as

 

"Microsoft Nokia"

 

All the best :smileyhappy:

 

 

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Sage
mikwag
Posts: 266

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

As a long-time loyal Nokia customer and someone who trusted Nokia by buying one of the first N8s as soon as it was released, I can only agree with the views expressed above.

 

Nokia appears to have behaved rather like a rabbit in the Apple/Android headlamps.  NOTHING it has done in the past year has really addressed the issues of the majority of the Nokia-philes like me.  It is only the fact that most of us are Apple/Android-phobes that there is still any interest at all in forums like this - and also, of course, the fact that we have paid for an expensive product that we would like to work better, knowing that it can.

 

I think when the dust settles on the fiasco that has played out over the past 8 months, that Nokia will be really struggling UNLESS it changes RADICALLY - release products within an acceptable time of announcement, stick to promised dates, release FULLY tested reliable products (both hardware and software).  They have a LONG way to go, given the broken string of promises they have peddled over the past year, to regain my trust, sufficient for me to spend my hard-earned money with them again.

My current phone - Samsung Galaxy Note
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Counsellor
Posts: 71

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?


mikwag wrote:

 

I think when the dust settles on the fiasco that has played out over the past 8 months, that Nokia will be really struggling UNLESS it changes RADICALLY - release products within an acceptable time of announcement, stick to promised dates, release FULLY tested reliable products (both hardware and software).  They have a LONG way to go, given the broken string of promises they have peddled over the past year, to regain my trust, sufficient for me to spend my hard-earned money with them again.


You're right, but these kinds of problems go  back longer than the last 8 months.  I bought an E71 just over two years ago. It was a beautifully made piece of hardware, but there were software problems galore, especially with ovi.com and other software aside from Symbian. Then there were the firmware updates, which invariably made the system worse. I have written extensively on these forums about all this and won't repeat it here. But this was a product that was tantalizingly close to being wonderful, and ended up being a disappointment because Nokia appears to have children designing/implementing software and websites and doing their software QA. I have no experience with subsequent Nokia phones because I'm now a happy Android user (Motorola XT720).

 

As for your statement that "Nokia will be really struggling", your use of future tense is not appropriate; they are already in deep trouble. Their market share on both ends of the price spectrum is collapsing, due to competition from much more able makers. I am very skeptical that the partnership with Microsoft, another moribund company (in my opinion), will get Nokia turned around.  It's sad to see a once-great company lose its way like this, because there's a real human cost to such an event. If I'm right that the decline will continue, a lot of people are going to lose their jobs, a process that has already begun.

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Sage
mikwag
Posts: 266

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Of course you are right donallen.  Complacency as market leader leads to lazy management.  By the time someone was prepared to grasp the nettle to deal with the problems, I think that killing Symbian was probably the only way.  Had Symbian been brought up to speed quicker, as a priority in a shorter timeframe - with a better UI - then things could have been different. Instead of which Nokia bumbled along as before (I had a Nokia 95 8GB) - promises - broken promises - more promises.  Unfortunately, while they were trying to pull the wool over our eyes, their eyes were blind to the competition.

I saw this happen with mainframes years ago.  The big mainframe companies made huge profits from the hardware - the software (operating systems etc.) was not where the money lay - it was the tin. Then along came microprocessors and smaller faster-moving companies and all of a sudden the big companies had to reduce their prices - and consequently their profits. Too late, they recognised that in order to survive they had to sell services and software more effectively - but it was like trying to turn an oil tanker - the company mindset couldn't be changed overnight.  The decline set in and most of those 'huge' companies no longer exist as key players today, if they exist at all.

And I also agree that it is a real tragedy - I see superb products coming out of Labs obviously produced and written by very capable people.  I also still believe that a souped up Symbian probably beats most of the competition.  Nokia's management, planning and implementation strategy has been so incompetent for so long, that today we are seeing the results. Whether the current downturn is terminal only time will tell, but the company is definitely on life-support.

My current phone - Samsung Galaxy Note
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Counsellor
Posts: 71

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?


mikwag wrote:

Of course you are right donallen.  Complacency as market leader leads to lazy management.  By the time someone was prepared to grasp the nettle to deal with the problems, I think that killing Symbian was probably the only way.  Had Symbian been brought up to speed quicker, as a priority in a shorter timeframe - with a better UI - then things could have been different. Instead of which Nokia bumbled along as before (I had a Nokia 95 8GB) - promises - broken promises - more promises.  Unfortunately, while they were trying to pull the wool over our eyes, their eyes were blind to the competition.

I saw this happen with mainframes years ago.  The big mainframe companies made huge profits from the hardware - the software (operating systems etc.) was not where the money lay - it was the tin. Then along came microprocessors and smaller faster-moving companies and all of a sudden the big companies had to reduce their prices - and consequently their profits. Too late, they recognised that in order to survive they had to sell services and software more effectively - but it was like trying to turn an oil tanker - the company mindset couldn't be changed overnight.  The decline set in and most of those 'huge' companies no longer exist as key players today, if they exist at all.

And I also agree that it is a real tragedy - I see superb products coming out of Labs obviously produced and written by very capable people.  I also still believe that a souped up Symbian probably beats most of the competition.  Nokia's management, planning and implementation strategy has been so incompetent for so long, that today we are seeing the results. Whether the current downturn is terminal only time will tell, but the company is definitely on life-support.


Yes, exactly right. Business history is littered with the corpses of companies who had gotten fat, happy, and lazy, with money rolling in from their cash cows. And then the world changed. You are describing IBM above, and it's true -- they came very close to lights out. I think we are watching the same process with Microsoft today. Ballmer is the wrong guy to run that company, the antithesis of Steve Jobs, with absolutely no instincts about how to guide the company to building products that delight customers. So they plod along, selling Windows and Office upgrades. But the world is changing; witness tablets not running Windows, and more importantly, server-side (cloud) computing. And they can't hire the best young talent from the best computer-science programs, because Microsoft is not a "cool" place to work.

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Sage
mikwag
Posts: 266

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

[ Edited ]

donallen wrote:

You are describing IBM above, and it's true -- they came very close to lights out.


Actually I was thinking of

 

"In September 1986 Unisys was formed through the merger of the mainframe corporations Sperry and Burroughs, with Burroughs buying Sperry for $4.8 billion. The merger was the largest in the computer industry at the time and made Unisys the second largest computer company with annual revenue of $10.5 billion. At the time of the merger, Unisys had approximately 120,000 employees.

 

In 2007, after 3 years of massive losses and consecutive losing quarters, Unisys spun off one their service divisions to remain in business. The retirement of Larry Weinbach leaves the company in a chain of losing quarters. Its Blue Bell Headquarters is auctioned  to help prop up cash flow. Other cost cutting measures include employees' mileage reimbursements limited and wages frozen.

 

On November 11, 2008, the company was removed from the Standard & Poor's 500 index as the market capitalization of the company had fallen below the S&P 500 minimum of $4 billion.

 

Late 2008, the company has been in a continuous period of cost-shedding, including benefits cuts and a number of layoffs. The workforce is now down to under 26,000 from a peak of 120,000, a loss of more than 78%.

 

2010: Unisys has been reinventing itself since mainframe makers Sperry and Burroughs were mashed up in 1986. Sells off its health information management business for capital preservation.

 

2010 employees - 22,900"

 

or GEC

 

"At the company's peak in the early 1980s, there were about 1,600 employees, mainly based in the original Elliott building at Borehamwood UK, and at 3 new purpose built factory units in Woodside Estate in Dunstable UK. There were a number of small offices in many other countries too.

 

By the 1990s, the real-time process control market was moving to cheaper microprocessor based systems, and GEC 4000 series sales into that market dried up. X.25 networks were being replaced by Internet networks, and so X.25 packet switch sales dried up. This left just the Videotex sales to other countries, and so the company concentrated on this product. However, there was only a window of a few years before the World Wide Web displaced Videotex systems, and the last of the company's main products also dried up.

and then there was DEC .... and Compaq .... oh, and have I mentioned ICL!?

 

By contrast, IBM has faired pretty well, compared to most - at least the ones above.

 

"In 2011, Fortune ranked IBM the 18th largest firm in the U.S., as well as the 7th most profitable. Globally, the company was ranked the 31st largest firm by Forbes for 2011. Employees 2010 - 426,751"

 

My current phone - Samsung Galaxy Note
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Counsellor
Posts: 71

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?


mikwag wrote:

donallen wrote:

You are describing IBM above, and it's true -- they came very close to lights out.


Actually I was thinking of

 

[snip]

 

By contrast, IBM has faired pretty well, compared to most - at least the ones above.

 

"In 2011, Fortune ranked IBM the 18th largest firm in the U.S., as well as the 7th most profitable. Globally, the company was ranked the 31st largest firm by Forbes for 2011. Employees 2010 - 426,751"

 


IBM snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, one of the few. But my point was that even a company that dominant came very close to complete disaster as a result of the syndrome we are discussing (refusing to see that the world has changed when money continues to roll in from the cash cow based on old technology) until Lou Gerstner became CEO and did some very smart things. Today, they are a powerhouse again, very well managed by Sam Palmisano (it's worth watching his talks and interviews on youtube; very impressive guy). 

 

The ones you mentioned that are no longer with us were mostly small potatoes (even DEC) compared to IBM. While your point is right, I'm saying that there's something to be learned when even an IBM has a near-death experience as a result of blinkered management.

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Counsellor
Thewonderer
Posts: 69

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

This is the beginning of the end.....

 

well said don't you think?

 

regards

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Counsellor
p2829
Posts: 32

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

Nokia American CEO thinks brighter days are ahead with a new partner in Microsoft and planned new devices using Windows.

 

He misses out one fundamental thing - Customer loyalty to Nokia by ensuring prompt remedial updates to  its recent smartphones like N8.

 

It irkes N8 owners to be kept waiting in a dream for Symbian Anna while Nokia churns out new phones using the supposedly upgraded operating system.

 

Once loyalty trust and hope is lost in Nokia, it doesn't matter anymore if Nokia comes out with superb Windows phones. It will just be 'No' to Nokia from its alienated customers, who even if they like Windows, will look to other phone manufacturers other than Nokia.

 

If Nokia provides prompt and reassuring after sale service and system updates, most people will be emotionally attached to continue buying Nokia be it a Symbian, Meego or Windows based and regardless of the hype factor for iPhone and Android.

 

Let N8 be the last Nokia phone we buy.

 

For new phone purchase, try out other manufacturers. We may have better luck than with Nokia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sage
m80116
Posts: 102

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

I perfectly subscribe ! 

Once loyalty trust and hope is lost in Nokia, it doesn't matter anymore if Nokia comes out with superb Windows phones. It will just be 'No' to Nokia from its alienated customers, who even if they like Windows, will look to other phone manufacturers other than Nokia.


 I thought the N8 would be my last NOKIA before I purchased. I was very tempted to switch to Android (Samsung Galaxy S II) before NOKIA let go the development completely, but ended up with NOKIA again for the proven Symbian reliability and feature list, not to mention the wonderful camera the N8 has.

 

It is a very sad ending, I've had N80, the N95 8GB (I still have) and also the N8 now.

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Advisor
Tmannnia
Posts: 21

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

[ Edited ]

Absolutely agree with p2829, NOKIA, TAKE CARE OF YOUR CURRENT LOYAL CUSTOMERS, DO NOT LOOSE A LOYAL BASE FOR A SHORT TERM AGENDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It is simple, provide N8 customers with excellent, prompt updates, then your next flagship will consist of current N8 customers and new customers as you will have gotten your house in order.

                                                                                   or

Ignore N8 customers, and hope for the next flagship, the new customers will be in larger numbers than us.

 

Personally I think no one is really listening. One of these months/years Nokia will be bought out and it will be very sad to see a "once giant, be scavenged for it's assets" It's a dog eat dog world!

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Sage
Posts: 99

Re: Nokia : Why are you alienating your N8 customers?

[ Edited ]

I agree with most of what everyone is saying here. Like you, I'm eagerly waiting for Symbian Anna. And I'm hoping to get many of the annoyances in Symbian^3 fixed.

 

But yesterday, I was again reminded that the current version of Symbian^3 is really not that bad compared to the competition (in spite of Stephen Elop's opinion that was deliberately leaked to the media by him). I had installed the IM (instant messaging) for Nokia widget on my phone and set up Google Talk as the IM service. I was thinking that by using Google Talk, I would be able to easily send free text messages to my wife, who has an Android 2.1 phone.

 

But after working 30 minutes on my wife's Android phone trying to get this work, I had to give up! I could get Google Talk to work as an app, but apparently there is no way to install an IM widget like the Nokia IM widget and put it on the home screen of the Android phone. The whole Android user interface is confusing, unintuitive, and plain ugly compared to Symbian^3.

 

I tried about 10 apps from the Android store, some of which I had to pay for, but they were all junk. I couldn't find a single app that could provide an IM widget with IM status and latest message linked to the whole IM app so that when you tap on the widget, Google Talk opens. I don't think I was asking for much. I tried to google this issue but found nothing. There is apparently no way to put any kind of permanent notification on the screen of the Android phone about new instant messages, which pretty much makes instant messaging useless on an Android phone. You are forced to use the IM service of your network provider, which in my case charges 10 cents per message.

 

 

Community Manager's note: reference to an unannounced product removed.

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