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Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger ...

Counsellor
Posts: 61

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

[ Edited ]

@kevinx1: I'm using "v3.01 09wk34b02". Thanks for the tip. After testing as per your suggestions on the way to work just now, I can confirm that your suspicion is correct. Whether Nokia or Brodit charger,

 

a) using the charger while using the internal gps antenna screws up the internal gps antenna (or the system using it).

 

b) the bad effect of having used the charger persists after removing it. Only after I rebooted the phone did the internal gps work right again.  

 

Something, either excessive voltage (accumulator = 3.7 volts, charger = 5 volts) or something else doesn't agree with the gps antenna; effectively, one must avoid charging while the gps antenna is in use.

 

The real improvement that led me to write "breakthrough" was not, as I thought at the time, the new maps version; it was the coincidence that on the same day I had added a filter between the N97 and the preamp in my car which allowed me to connect the TV-out to my external monitor normally. Until then I had interrupted the ground connection from the N97 to "composite video in" on the external monitor. To get a picture on the external monitor, I had to have the charger connected; since the charger and the external monitor have a common ground, the circuit between the N97 and the monitor was only closed with the charger connected.   

 

When I first tested the new Maps version on the way to work a couple of days ago, I didn't have the charger connected, so everything was fine.  On the way home, I did connect the charger, and blooey!

 

Thanks, kevinx1, for getting me on the right track. 

 

Hmm. With the right resistor, one could lower the voltage from the charger to about 4 volts and see what happens, right?

 

On the other hand, some N97s don't have the problem - maybe it's a slight leak of current to the ground side, the equivalent of static buildup?

 

Why oh why hasn't Nokia come out with an official fix for the charger/antenna problem? I'm afraid there's not much point in my demonstrating the problem to my local Nokia Care place as long as they don't have a bulletin from Nokia telling them what to do about it.

Message Edited by andyjb on 04-Sep-2009 08:33 AM
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Counsellor
Posts: 54

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97

[ Edited ]

lbalogh wrote:
Ok I'm joining averyone to make this thread bigger and more visible. After waiting some weeks to be sure that Nokia is aware of the problem, I finally bring back my device to a Nokia Care Center. I hope it won't take weeks (I already miss my N97 !)

 

My N97 came back from the Nokia Center, all they did is a firmware upgrade (from v12.0.24 to v12.0.24... yes the upgraded to the same version). They told me that the GPS is working perfectly. When I said that I cannot have a fix without AGPS, they responded some **bleep** like "GPS needs network to work, blabla".

 

It's really pathetic. Now what ? My GPS does not work and there is NOTHING I can do, it's very frustrating

Message Edited by lbalogh on 04-Sep-2009 12:19 PM
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Advisor
Posts: 17

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97

ye, got mine back from repair too, all they done is firmware reinstall (v11)
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Counsellor
Posts: 34

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97

By the way, the issue was already posted on the wikipeda, but "someone" conviniently deleted it...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N97

 

 If you search google.com for "Nokia N97 gps problems", the fourth result is:

 

Nokia N97 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 - 7:22amIn Europe, and in the U.S. the N97's GPS does not get or gets very low signals. Nokia has not yet stated anything about this problem. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N97 - Cached - Similar -

 

 

No traces left in the wikipedia article...mmmmm

 

 

 

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Counsellor
Posts: 34

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

[ Edited ]

Grounding could be an issue, I have been suspecting a far while time ago...

 

It seems that the antenna and the gps unit work properly but get a lot of interference which leads to the high imprecision.

 

A month ago, while driving with my N97 and the official Nokia charger plugged in, I took it off the charger from the phone and got a small electrical shock...

 

The thing is that after that one of my front and rear lights of the car were wasted. I am completely sure that there was a short circuit or something. Could it be to poor grounding?

 

For sure any antenna unproperly grounded will be subject to heavy interference.

 

Moreover, when using the FM transmitter on the N97, if you have the charger on, it will act as an antenna and jamm the radio on certain frequencies, especiall if the lenght of the power cord is short enough for FM transmission wavelenghts.

 

PD: Im electrical engineer.

 

 

I am almost 100% that the issue is not software, but a faulty gps antenna and probably related with some sort of incorrect mounting, grounding, connector or similar...Maybe there is some kind of mechanical failure that from bumps, shakes, etc. makes a small connector lose and the grounding goes fuky. This could explain why some of the repaired antennas stop working after 2-3 weeks. Could be related to the phone's motherboard and the grounding there? This would also explain that replaced phones (for a new handset) work properly.

 

What about replacing the battery????

 

Taking my N97 next week for repairs.

 

 

Message Edited by notero on 04-Sep-2009 04:56 PM
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Sage
Posts: 230

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

for all those that have sent the phone away for repair and it came back unfixed according to consumer law your now entitled to a new handset or your money back

 

 http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/thinking_about/mobile-phones/

 

it clearly states 

 

''

Your rights

If you are buying a mobile phone, it must be of satisfactory quality, fit for its purpose and as described.  

When a mobile phone doesn’t meet some or all of these conditions, follow the advice below:

  • If you have only had the phone a few weeks or haven’t had a reasonable opportunity to check it, you are probably entitled to a refund for a fault or poor description, or alternatively you may request a replacement.
  • If the fault is only minor and can easily be put right, it is reasonable to accept a repair. This won’t stop you claiming a replacement or refund if the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory.
  • If you have had the phone longer than a few weeks or have had a reasonable opportunity to check it, you are probably still entitled to a repair or replacement. A repair should be carried out within a reasonable period of time and without causing you significant inconvenience. Any repair should restore it to a satisfactory condition. If this does not happen, you are entitled to a replacement or compensation. This could be a sum of money or the cost of having somebody else repair the phone.
  • If the phone cannot be replaced or repaired economically, you are entitled to a refund. The trader may make a reduction from the price you paid to allow for the use you have had from the phone.
  • If you are out of pocket in any other way, you may be entitled to compensation over and above the price of the phone.
The trader must sort out your problem, not the manufacturer

Remember, if you are entitled to a refund, replacement, repair or compensation, it is the trader who must sort out your problem. The trader cannot tell you to go back to the manufacturer or to claim through a guarantee or warranty.

 

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Counsellor
Posts: 54

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

[ Edited ]

After receiving my phone unfixed I wrote a email to Nokia directly (via the Support page on their website). I was surprised that someone called me some hours later, and opened a "case" for my problem. Then 2 hours later someone else phoned to give me an adress to send my N97. I hope this time is the good one.

 

Some "Nokia Care center" seems totally unaware of the problem and take clients as idiots for "not knowing how GPS works". When I brought my phone to the first center I was told that "satellites turn auround the earth and the phone need network to follow them" :smileymad: how could I react to that ??

Message Edited by lbalogh on 04-Sep-2009 06:34 PM
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Advisor
Posts: 22

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

I read your posts about car charger causing GPS issues on N97 this morning. I got quite excited intending to test it asap. I charged my phone fully at home. After that restarted the phone and did some driving without using the car charger or any other cable connection in the car. Result - in my case it did not make any difference. Still the same GPS issues... So I suspect there is something else going on...
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Counsellor
jarnodewit
Posts: 63

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

Been a while as my phone was in repair for a long time. BUT!!!

I tried to navigate today with the latest firmware and the latest Maps 3 beta and it all works! I also have a Brodit car holder/charger and it didn't matter if I plugged it in or not. I seriously don't know what Nokia Care (Dynafix) has done, but they claim only a firmware upgrade.

 

They also replaced the camera cover on my requist. Perhaps they pushed hard enough to put the GPS antanna in place again. But at the moment I really don't care.

 

Will try the navigation some more the next couple of days to see if the performance starts to drop again. Read some people had good GPS at start, but problems later.

 

For now I'm once again a very happy N97 user.

 

 

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

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Counsellor
Posts: 34

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

It has to be the antenna.

 

I put a coper wire (8 cm long, but it doesnt matter to much) touching the antenna connector just next to the camera lens cover. Hold it with your hands and leave the battery cover out: precision of GPS signal jumps from 100m to 10m.

 

Problem: put the cover back again, even with the antenna and the precision will fall again to 80m or so...

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New Member
Posts: 4

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

I got my N97back from nokia care today. And as expected the GPS performance is still very bad.

Apparently all they did was upgrade Maps from v2 to v3 (after having flashed the firmware to v12 the last time i sent it).

The service report just said, "tested Maps in field, works ok". They didn't mention anything about the GPS accuracy and disconnection issues. I think "works ok" for them is just getting a GPS fix.

 

Finally, it seems I spent the last 3 weeks waiting for my phone for nothing... I don't know if i'll send it to nokia care again... I'm very inclined to sell the phone and get a better one ... maybe an HTC or the Samsung Omnia HD...

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Mobile Guru
patc
Posts: 3,056

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

I read somewhere that Nokia have acknowledged that there are a number of issues with the N97, including some with GPS.

 

You'll all be delighted to hear that at the same time, they announced an R2 release of the firmware that not only addresses a long list of bugs and issues, but also adds new features! :smileyvery-happy:

 

Unfortunately, Nokia aren't releasing it until next month sometime and thenunless you bought SIM-freeyou'll have to wait a further who-knows-how-long for your network to do their thing ..

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Advisor
Posts: 17

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

after sending my phone for repair the second time they finally fixed it :smileyhappy:

 

in the letter that came with it says they have changed a mechanical part.

 

now i get between 6 to 8 satellites and pretty good accuracy 10 to 30 metres, sometimes it jumps up to 100 metres or so but navigation is perfect, im using nokia maps and garmin.

 

sent it again today to change the lens :smileysad: its scratched up.

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New Member
Posts: 3

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

Got my phone back from repair. GPS antenna replaced according to papers. No change. However, the new firmware or the latest OVI-maps has fixed the problem of speed dropping to zero every so often. But accuracy is still unacceptable. Handed it back in and waiting for next response from the service shop
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Contributor
Posts: 8

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

Today I received back my Nokia N97 and they only updated the firmware...

However, the problem seems to be solved. GPS doesn't stop and has an accuracy between 10 and 25 meters. Even inside I have a good accuracy. I also receiving info from 7 to 8 satalites instead of max 4 before the update.

 

I'll wait for a couple of days because some users already reported errors after a few days, but till now I'm quite satisfied.

 

My softwareversion is 11.0.021 and ajusted software version is 11.0.021.251.01 (product code 0587245 so no version 12 yet :smileysad: ). I'm not sure what my version whas before I send my phone to the dealer.

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Contributor
Posts: 8

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

:smileysad: :smileysad: :smileysad:

I was on the highway and again my GPS signal was lost and went all over the place. While I was driving in the city, the GPS was 500 meters behind me and after a while I drove 150km/h (according to Nokia Maps :smileyhappy:). I checked the GPS information and only had an accuracy left of 100 to 200 meters. While I charged my phone I also lost the signal every 10 to 15 seconds.

 

Back to the store again :smileysad: (I want a new device!)

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Sage
Posts: 220

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

Yet STILL Nokia refuse to answer queries, posts, or anything else.

 

I guess that can be taken as an admission of "guilt" in marketing shoddy, not fit for the purpose, goods.

 

 

N97MINI from 150310, after the N97 (number3) drove me mad!! Prev handset N82, 6230i, N80, 6600, 6310, 5110, 3210, 6300, and others :-)

kevinx_98 on Skype
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Sage
Posts: 220

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

A communication received from a Nokia contact. Although STILL not an "official statement" from Nokia (who STILL seem to be ignoring their customers). Great PR, ehh??

 

""Regarding the new firmware for the N97, Nokia has released a statement during Nokia world '09 ( http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10431_Nokia_N97_firmware_v20_preview.php ). From what I understand v12 was only released in certain places in Europe, UK was not one of them. Nokia has promised us version 20 in October, so we shouldn't have to wait for too long. We don't have a Change List for this firmware yet, so not sure if the Map issue will be solved, but as they are releasing a newer version of Maps as well, i imagine this should solve the problem! We'll have to wait and see"".

 

Cheers

 

N97MINI from 150310, after the N97 (number3) drove me mad!! Prev handset N82, 6230i, N80, 6600, 6310, 5110, 3210, 6300, and others :-)

kevinx_98 on Skype
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Counsellor
Posts: 34

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

Another user reported in a forum that his local Noka Care center had told him that Nokia has officialy sent a technical bulletin to Nokia Care centers regarding repairs on faulty N97's GPS. Apparently they have instructions to send back the phone to Nokia.

 

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New Member
Posts: 2

Re: gps keeps cutting out on N97 - due to charger causing voltage wobble?

Just to add my experience to the greater picture: I just received my N97 back from the second round of repairs where they had replaced both the camera lens and the "back assy", the part that contains the sticker antennas.

 


On first try things seemed better, without Sim card (and therefore no AGPS) it got a fix with four satellites in about five minutes. However, it could not acquire any more satellites. The accuracy was around 20 to 40 m which is a bit low. I then restored my previous apps and settings from the backup and it seems that the performance got slightly worse. It acquired more satellites, but the accuracy sometimes jumped above 100 m. Together with the latest beta map version it is usable for navigation, except that the position freezes for a couple of seconds every once in a while.
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