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Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users befor...

Advisor
epto
Posts: 20

Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way back

My  E7 kept nagging me about a software update and I made the mistake of doing it, thinking this was going to be a few bug fixes, now the whole look and feel has changed , all the stuff I knew how to find as moved, features I used all the time seem to have disappeared.

 

If I'd have know what was going to happen I'd not done it:

 

Nokia, if you are going to foist such a major upheaval on users with, as I have now discovered no way back, PLEASE issue a warning that what will occur is a major change and not some bug fixes, I'm really annoyed, I now have to waste my time re-learning the phone.

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Professor
jraduga
Posts: 725

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

Your nokia suite  would have told you that it was belle you were to get. and the very first post of the thread marked belle is now available has a link to the faq's for belle that told us all what is in belle and what is no longer.

 

There are threads that have lists of what people would like to see in belle, they are being watched by Nokia management and the developers, so if would definitely worth adding you comments of what you would like to see added. These comments will be looked at for a possible further update, there are no guarantees that there will be a further update, but there are apparently looking to see what comes thru in the ideas and if they get enough people wanting the same thing then it will be considered further.

 

The faqs are here http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/nokia-belle-update/nokia-belle-update-faq

Many of the things that have been removed have been done so to allow for further development and features later down the line.

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Mobile Visionary
timkamat
Posts: 1,127

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

It was a wellknown and most anticipated update and there have been a lot of discussions going on the internet. It was known that this is to be a major update and sneak peaks of which were there all over the net. It was your fault that you had not kept yourself abreast of this knowledge.
In Love With My C6-01:Now running on Nokia Belle!
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Counsellor
BellX_1
Posts: 43

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

Dear Epto, don't let these replies get you down. Not everyone has time or interest in reading the web on updates. I didn't know about Belle. I used an E6 for work, it's a busy job, never had an idea about Belle, clicke update, and found my phone wrecked and I can't use it for work anymore. Nokia should have warned. No way around it. No excuse. But they all tell you its your own fault - ignore it, you should have been warned.
Current N900 and former E6 user regretting Belle upgrade
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Devices owned: 2110, 2110i, Cellular Data Card, 8110, 7110, 6210, 6310i, 6100, 9500, 6233, 5140i, 3109c, N900, E6-00
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Professor
hpholm
Posts: 411

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

I agree with epto on this. The behavior of Nokia Suite regarding the Belle upgrade and other updates is intrusive. Even if a user knows that he does not want the Belle upgrade, the Suite will present an automated screen at regular intervals, with no option to turn it off anywhere in the Suite settings.

 

The advertising curtain in the Nokia Suite has no links to further reading, and no warnings that the Belle upgrade will remove some of the functionality of the phone, and that it disables certain apps already installed. Just the "Same phone, a whole new experience" marketing and push buttons to install now or later.

 

--

Hans

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Professor
jraduga
Posts: 725

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

I understand how somethings that you may have used before are no longer working or are not displaying properly for you, and it would be frustrating and you say you use the phones for business, then obviously its very valuable to make sure it doing what you want it to do. So why do you not check first. Any update is going to change something thats the reason for doing an update, else why would Nokia bother writing them, after all its has only been a topic of discussion right across the internet for the last 9 months.

 

So what you guys are basically saying, if I sent you a a file with 2 buttons and one said install and the other said later, without any further information you would just click install....If thats the case, which i guess it is from what you have all said, then i guess your computers and phones must just be full of virus's.

 

Honestly, nokia suite tells you what you are about to install,obviously if doesnt explain it in detail, but then again it never has before either. So because you, didnt read what it was you were doing, and couldnt be bothered to check anything to find out anything,  so it must be nokia's fault.

 

I know it sounds harsh, but do you sign contracts without knowing what it is you are signing. Do you buy a new house without first checking it out just  because someone else says its an upgrade, whilst i grant you somethings have changed more than what most people expected, the fault is NOT nokias alone here, their only fault was misjudging some of the facilities that people relied on and needed, and the way something might look on a certain phone but they didnt force you to click install, just because the software tells you there is an update you dont have to have it, no matter how much it pops up.

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Mobile Visionary
timkamat
Posts: 1,127

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

Has Anyone forced you to do an upgrade? The Nokia suite just tells you there is an update available and it is upto you to decide whether or not you want to install it. In this age of social networking and information highways your way of taking things looks quite obsolete. As for me, I was waiting impatiently for the belle update, I got it done at Nokia care on the very third day of its launch. I got additional updates via software update client on my phone and I did not hesitate in installing those which I was confident about. While for the update Microsoft apps, I just went thru the discussions like this one and decided not to install it. Till today my Nokia suite and the software update client of my phone shows me the update, but I wont install it- Thats it!
You should understand that an update is finally an update and it is bound to change the look and feel and the way of working with your phone. It is upto you how you get used to it. You cant blame Nokia for upgrading the software.
In Love With My C6-01:Now running on Nokia Belle!
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Counsellor
BellX_1
Posts: 43

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

of course! you all know best

it must have said somewhere in the fineprint that belle removed remote drive
and email folders
and dpad nav on homescreen

i have been careless
and am paying for it
350 euros to be exact for now usless e6
i admit defeat

debate settled!
done!

i'm outta here.
Current N900 and former E6 user regretting Belle upgrade
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Devices owned: 2110, 2110i, Cellular Data Card, 8110, 7110, 6210, 6310i, 6100, 9500, 6233, 5140i, 3109c, N900, E6-00
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Professor
jraduga
Posts: 725

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

I would suggest that you add you needs to the lists as i mentioned earlier. they are checked, and there are people who have suggested similar things, so the more names they for the same things then the more likely they are of doing a further update.

add them here /t5/Software-Updates/List-of-Belle-additions-corrections-needed/td-p/1328167

 

It is definitely worthwhile.

 

in the world of advertising a rule of thumb (and it does vary depending on medium used), is for each person tha says something there is another 100 people who feel the same but havent said anything. So it only take 10people to say they want something and it would be considered as if 1000 people want it.. So say what it is you need in the thread above.

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Professor
hpholm
Posts: 411

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

[ Edited ]

It's the behavior of Nokia Suite I'm unhappy with. Automated search for updates can be disabled in the phone, but not in Nokia Suite. Requests to be able to permanently turn off updates search or at least hide unwanted updates has been made by various people in Nokia BetaLabs Suite forum for more than a year now.

 

The Mike_Myers_N8 list is about additions and corrections for Nokia Belle itself, not for the update mechanisms. Please let's keep it that way.

 

--

Hans

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Professor
Mike_Myers_N8
Posts: 477

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

Er, can I say something here?

 

I'm the guy who compiled that list:

/t5/Software-Updates/List-of-Belle-additions-corrections-needed/td-p/1328167/page/4

 

I got Belle the first or second day that it was available.  Fortunately, I have two N8 phones, and only installed Belle on one - which crippled it as described above.  I still have it, and use it, as I'm wondering if Nokia will ever get around to fixing things.

 

 

 

I think some of you are being silly here.  No, I certainly don't download random stuff for my computer, but a phone is NOT a computer.  It's a tool.  When Nikon (or Leica, or whoever) comes out with a firmware update, and for that matter, even Windows) I do it.  With Windows I may read up on it first, but for the others, I just keep my product up to date.

 

Nokia should be ashamed of what they have done to us.  Maybe they didn't even know about these problems until users pointed them out - but if that's the case, Belle should have been released through the Beta Store  ---  and if Nokia really didn't know about the damage Belle would do, shame on them..  They should NEVER have released it, unless it came along with a second program to restore the phone to the way it used to be.

 

 

Sorry, but I don't go study and read up on what Nikon's latest firmware update might do for my D3, nor do I really study what the Windows firmware updates so.  When Microsoft says they have an update for my Office program, I simply install it. 

 

You go to the pharmacy and get a new medication.  The doctor has prescribed it.  How much time do you spend reading the four-page warning instructions, in fine print, talking about all the things that "might" happen.  Should I read that stuff - sure.  Do I?  Often no.  But that's medication, that may function differently for differrent people.  All of us have the same N8.  Nokia has/had the responsibility of knowing what would happen to the phone in the Belle update. 

 

Bottom line, if I didn't now have my second, original, N8, I would be very upset and angry, and would probably be demanding that Nokia tell me how to fix the phone until they correct the problems with Belle.

 

That list I put togetherr - /t5/Software-Updates/List-of-Belle-additions-corrections-needed/td-p/1328167/page/4 - well, a good number of them are "wish list" items, things that it would be nice to see in the future, but there are plenty in that list that worked perfectly before being ruined by Belle.  It's only that second group that annoys me.

 

(I don't mind learning new locations for things, nor do I mind new icons, or flashy backgrounds, but the loss of functionality is inexcusable.  It's as if Nokia were deliberately trying to discourage a large group of enthusiasts from using the more sophisticated Nokia products.  I don't know why this might be, but why else would they create such a fiasco, and seemingly not do anything to rectify the situation, or even admit that the situation even exists???)

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Professor
Mike_Myers_N8
Posts: 477

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

I should add, I am still using my Belle N8, in the hopes that Nokia will come out with an update to fix most of those problems.  At the same time, I'm also learning what an iphone can/can't do, and will do the same thing with Android. 

 

If Nokia does fix the belle issues, great.  I just continue.  If not, I give up on Nokia and switch to my Anna N8, using it until when/if Android or iphone catches up, and then switch over.

 

 

 

None of this discussion would be taking place here, if Nokia Beta Labs had released Belle, along with a program to restore Anna, and used it as a learning experience before sending Belle out as an update for all Nokia N8 phones.   ....hint to Nokia for future releases.

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Professor
jraduga
Posts: 725

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

@Mike, personally I'm all for a beta version of OS's. As some of you know i work in an a part of the internet security sector. Some of what i do is testing A/V Software, some of it is checking out browsers etc, and some of it is do with the financial industry and ID takeovers.

 

Some people say i dont have a life, they are probably correct, as when i get home I play around with the same sort of stuff again. Betas are a great way to get a handle on things and contribute to the production of some piece of software that can really make a difference.

 

I buy what i need, whether it be a new PC ro a new phone or whatever, just so i can test stuff and then forward info to the designers. I personally think something like this would be a huge benefit for Nokia as well. Not that i believe they will see as an advantage, due to not wanting their competitors to possible have access to it.

 

However Its like this, you should have some idea of what it is you are installing before you do it. And yes I do read the details that comes with my medication, In my case its probably no longer a big deal what it does to me, as i'm stuffed anyway. but regardless you should have some idea of what it is you are doing.

 

As you say it possible Nokia may not have had a full idea of what would happen (which is where beta testing should come in) and they should have. but for some of the things the people here are talking about there is info available.

 

All of this is why i have said a couple of times now in this thread to add their comments to your thread Mike. I have read thru it, and some of the ideas are good ones, and I believe would have real value to end users. some of the things as you say are things that people have mention that they feel should ahve been in the update but had been removed from this update that was in anna. This list of your Mike is being read by the people that matter, and I believe that all comments/suggestions should be held in one place. Managers are more likely to look and read something if they dont have to chase all over the net to find it. In one place makes it convenient, more user friendly, and easier on managers to calculate how many people have suggested the same things. I also dont believe in re-inventing the wheel so to speak (eg. no need to have multiple thread all for the same things) thats i suggested your thread.

 

But I do stand by what i have said, its not only nokia who's at fault here, people need to stop and think about what they are doing. And must not just use the excuse "I am too busy to find out what it was, I just did it" and then feel they are not at fault.

 

I cant help but wonder are you at fault if you say "i'm too busy to stop for pertrol, I just drove on", and then say its not my fault the car ran out of fuel, it must the car makers fault, or the mechanics fault for not making my car run without fuel. Sorry but people need to learn that they are just as responsible for things they do as anybody else is likely to be.

 

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Advisor
epto
Posts: 20

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

    jraduga wrote:
    Your nokia suite  would have told you that it was belle you were to get

    timkamat wrote:
    It was a wellknown and most anticipated update and there have been a lot of discussions going on the internet.

 

For me it's a phone, I very, very rarely use the Nokia suite, the phone just told me there was an upgrade, to be honest, before I came here to find out what on earth had happened to my phone and how to get it back to one I knew how to use I'd not even heard of Anna, let alone Belle.

 

Next time my phone nags me to upgrade, I'll almost certainly ignore it, and that'll probably turn out to be a bug fix or security upgrade, and I'll miss it.

 

 

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Professor
Mike_Myers_N8
Posts: 477

Re: Anna > Belle . . . . . Please warn users before major software change like this with no way b

[ Edited ]

jraduga, in a logical world, none of this would have happened. It's perfectly understandable in a major software update that there might be bugs, and one would hope that bugs would be quickly corrected.  What happened just isn't logical.  I've got my own ideas of what might have gone wrong.


  • The guys who best understand what was done with Symbian might all have been shipped off to Accenture, and are no longer available, leaving the guys currently trying to finish up Belle lost in confusion, with little idea of what the N8 was designed to do. As an example of what I mean, perhaps they're not even aware of what's supposed to happen when you plug in an external drive -- or so many other things the N8 did so beautifully.



You've helped with that long list of what's needed for Belle. Copy it to a temporary file, and remove all the "wish list" items, improvements, and suggestions. Cut down the list to only what has been broken or lost in the move from Anna to Belle. Then try to think of a more reasonable excuse or explanation of how so many things could be broken at one time?


If I'm right,

If you can think of a more logical scenario, I'm all ears. I feel like someone who just took my 2012 Chevrolet Corvette in for a tune-up, and find some dude working on my car with no modern tools, no computer, no idea of what 2012 Corvettes are supposed to be like, and when the car isn't running right, no idea of how to fix it.  I think the guys who created Anna, and started to create Belle, knew exactly what they were doing and how to accomplish it, but they were fired or moved, leaving a clean-up crew to finish things up.  It's not that the clean-up crew is incompetent - given another year, they might have gotten Belle finished up correctly.  In all probability, they never got the time to do so.

 

Moderators notes: Inaccurate information, unfounded baseless accusation and speculative comments removed.

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