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Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

Sage
andrewaussie
Posts: 260

NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

so its been a while since we have herd from the nokia team in australia about the rollout of belle. at the curent time all my sources have gone mums the word.. but the thing that makes me think we wont get bell till after the lumia phones have been launched in australia. my thoughts behind this come from the fact that he who must not be named tells me that the generic version of belle for au doesnt exist, yet the new zeland one is alive and well.

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Counsellor
jamo128
Posts: 41

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

i find it funny that canada got it right away..

Its simple, no ones really going to buy that new phone of there's.... I was thinking about getting it, but if thats they way they want to go about it then they can get **bleep**ed.

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Sage
andrewaussie
Posts: 260

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

o the only reason i hold off is because first gen versions suck, ie. n97 and its spawn n97 mini. i wait for 3rd rendition.. and also the camera sucks
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Counsellor
CameronS
Posts: 50

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

@andrewaussie:

 

While you may be correct, and Australia won't get the Belle update until some seemingly unrelated event (the release of a new phone), or possibly not get the update at all... I think you are jumping the gun looking for negative conclusions. I see it differently:

 

  • Nokia Australia (for some really weird, possibly lazy, possibly malicious reason) did not intend to release a Belle update for Australia. After the unsurprising outcry from existing users over such a decision, they have now agreed to release an update.
  • This means that at the time of worldwide release a generic Australian version did not exist.
  • A generic version possibly still does not exist, as we are lead to believe that there is some work involved in creating a delivery that complies with Australia's unique telecommunications standards.
  • As we all know, the telcos will only get a version for testing after it is localised (as of yesterday Vodafone were saying they still do not have the upgrade for testing).

While it's possible to interpret any number of scenarios into the current situation, this all sounds plausible to me, and would expect it's still a matter of weeks before we'll see the upgrade (another week or two to create a generic version and a couple of weeks for telco testing).

 

...maybe I'm being naive and overly optimistic in the faith that Nokia will do the right thing, but I think it's all OK and we are on track to get the upgrade. I know there are several posts arguing that Nokia are manipulating the release date of updates around the release dates of new phones, but that doesn't make marketing sense: why would a company bother considering the relationship between the small number of existing users who may upgrade to the new phone by creating a much wider public ill-feeling towards the company. That doesn't make sense to me (surely their target market for the new phone is new customers, not existing customers). 

 

Cameron

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Sage
andrewaussie
Posts: 260

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

[ Edited ]

we were always geting the update. i jusrt see it as following trend from last time, where we got it 4 months after anna was released.
mobile companys always like to push there new products first..

dont get me wrong i know the update is coming.. but i dont think is goning to be here as fast as most ppl want it to. If you have been following my posts i would like to point out that i have been one of the main sources of information coming into this web site (im sure others can vouch for that).

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Sage
Posts: 75

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

I really do not think a mobile company has the right to block my upgrades... if that is what you are implying?

 

If Nokia are condoning this behaviour then I think they have "lost the plot" and will lose their customer base.

 

a bit like a toyota dealer in au blocking a warranty fixable item recalled by toyota.

 

The telcos dont own my phone... nor do they have any right to block access to updates.

 

They may not support a phone /firmware on their network but that is the extent of their rights

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Sage
andrewaussie
Posts: 260

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

yes yes i do. because the company are the ones providing the update not upgrade, and no its completly diffrent.

firstly the company is not required to do updates (this has been said before), they just do it to keep the phone relevant and ppl happy. and ultimatly nokia own any phone they produce, and if they are doing a carrier rollout they need the ok that they work on al carriers networks, then they will release it and send out minor fixes till the telcos are happy to release it.
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Sage
andrewaussie
Posts: 260

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

[ Edited ]

yes it is coming but i dont think we will see it till next month

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Sage
Posts: 75

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

[ Edited ]

Yes and No
The telcos are testing their custom configs not mine.
Belle is already available in its base form and it works in AU. The premise that they are holistic is garbage sorry but it is their customers on plans they care about. If my phone does not work it is my issue and they will refer me to Nokia. So ....
this is a power play and nothing more. We used to get updates on unlocked phones for years and years, well before telcos provided or even looked at them.

and no Nokia does not own my phone I do...

( if I chose to smash it to bits and return to nokia ? do they care? NO of course NOT.. its not their phone it was mine-LOL). it is not a licence its a purchase.


carrier rollout - that is for subsidized phones/ customized for the telcos additional services. not mine!
My phone works anywhere in the world and phones including N8's running belle from overseas also work here?
This is something really stupid about australia and if you beleive the lies from aussie telcos then I'm sorry

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Sage
andrewaussie
Posts: 260

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

[ Edited ]

ok so i take it you dont exactly understand what i am saying.
the telcos are testing their custom config yes.
it works in its base form yes but not on the updating devices. ie. n8, e7 etc. because this is an update there is more work that has to go into the process. (this has been said before on other pages).

as for nokia not owning the phones. yes u may have purchased the phone direct from nokia but they still have all say on what happpens to their products from updates to where it is avalible and what networks they work on, you can never truly own a product, u may consume it but u never own it.

and no i dont belive that the telcos are holding up the process is nokia clear and simple. but remember its just a phone and im sure ur life can go on without the update. so take a deep breath, they have said its coming.. now isnt that enough for now

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Sage
Posts: 75

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

Andrew,

 

Yes they will eventually... And I am happy to wait as i have multiple phones.

 

The ownership issue you are wrong.

Legally and every other way you proport.

I am the customer and all obligatory obligations are in my favour as I own/bought  the relationship and the device.

If you read up on customer service and why corporations pay such interest in it. It is because we own them and not vice-versa. As customers we own their very existence.

 

 

Just admit it and move on.

 

 

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Sage
noki2000
Posts: 204

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

Hi Australian friends,

 

Nokia Belle for those who have received it (for some of us at least) is a great update with missing things, it's very solid firmware, though. My N8 is just like brand new again, but it makes me think that no matter the long time Nokia took for development it was delivered in a hurry, because there are a bunch of widgets missing and a lot of people is claiming for returning to Anna in order to regain some lost functionality, so, I think this Belle what we've received is not it, yet

Perhaps you're as lucky as with Anna's and when the time comes to release the fixes or complements missing will be your time too for receiving a much more complete and perfect firmware update.

 

Best Regards.:smileyhappy:

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Counsellor
jamo128
Posts: 41

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

Lol, yes they may of fixxed some of the problems with belle by the time we get it, but i am pretty sure it take another month or 2 for us to get that fix aswell. 

 

 

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Contributor
naustuser
Posts: 5

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (i now have my doubts)

Nokia is not interested in supporting their products in Australia, so why support them. Belle has been released in all their other markets except Australia, then Nokia doesnt even have the decency to provide a logical reason.

Ill join the thousands of other ex Nokia phone users. Goodbye Nokia
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Professor
jraduga
Posts: 725

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)


whatsamatteryou wrote:

Andrew,

 

Yes they will eventually... And I am happy to wait as i have multiple phones.

 

The ownership issue you are wrong.

Legally and every other way you proport.

I am the customer and all obligatory obligations are in my favour as I own/bought  the relationship and the device.

If you read up on customer service and why corporations pay such interest in it. It is because we own them and not vice-versa. As customers we own their very existence.

 

 

Just admit it and move on.

 

 


I think what Andrew is saying here, is that whilst you may own your phone, and can do what you like with your phone, including smashing it if you want. You are always at the mercy of the phone manufacturer ( no matter who that is), and your service is always own by the carrier. The idea that we are the ones holding all the cards is no longer true for the most part. In this case it is always up to Nokia as what you get, they decide if they will produce an update, they will decide if and when you get it, even how you will get it. All firmware changes have to comply with telecommunication rules, and it the carriers that are responsible for making sure any mobile that runs on their networks comply.so even here you are at the mercy cf the telcos, if they don't want to test it or even just pass it , as compliant then you don't get it. You will never truly own your phone or the phone service. None of us have any control anymore, because it really doesn't matter what phone you use, you will still have the same issue
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Sage
Posts: 75

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

[ Edited ]

@jraduga...

I think what Andrew is saying here, is that whilst you may own your phone, and can do what you like with your phone, including smashing it if you want. You are always at the mercy of the phone manufacturer ( no matter who that is), and your service is always own by the carrier. The idea that we are the ones holding all the cards is no longer true for the most part. In this case it is always up to Nokia as what you get, they decide if they will produce an update, they will decide if and when you get it, even how you will get it. All firmware changes have to comply with telecommunication rules, and it the carriers that are responsible for making sure any mobile that runs on their networks comply.so even here you are at the mercy cf the telcos, if they don't want to test it or even just pass it , as compliant then you don't get it. You will never truly own your phone or the phone service. None of us have any control anymore, because it really doesn't matter what phone you use, you will still have the same issue

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what you are willing to accept then that is exactly what you deserve.

smart customers understand the relationship and how customer driven market forces make

and break companies. this is nothing new... either they meet our needs or they cease to exist.

believing that you have no choice only prolongs bad management and stifles real change.

one exception or instance does not define the relationship.

when someone tolerates your lies do you stop ? no it seems to work

when someone sells you a faulty product and you accept it ...will they fix it ? no

If you what to believe you have no choice then you deserve what you get... nothing

sorry but this negative / downtrodden i cant do anything is why things are where they are at.

If you are looking for instant gratification then this will not help you (nothing will by the way)

But actively driving companies to improve their products does produce better products.

not all the companies may be in business in the end.

 

As they say " you can be part of the solution or part of the problem"

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Professor
jraduga
Posts: 725

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)


whatsamatteryou wrote:

@jraduga...

I think what Andrew is saying here, is that whilst you may own your phone, and can do what you like with your phone, including smashing it if you want. You are always at the mercy of the phone manufacturer ( no matter who that is), and your service is always own by the carrier. The idea that we are the ones holding all the cards is no longer true for the most part. In this case it is always up to Nokia as what you get, they decide if they will produce an update, they will decide if and when you get it, even how you will get it. All firmware changes have to comply with telecommunication rules, and it the carriers that are responsible for making sure any mobile that runs on their networks comply.so even here you are at the mercy cf the telcos, if they don't want to test it or even just pass it , as compliant then you don't get it. You will never truly own your phone or the phone service. None of us have any control anymore, because it really doesn't matter what phone you use, you will still have the same issue

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is what you are willing to accept then that is exactly what you deserve.

smart customers understand the relationship and how customer driven market forces make

and break companies. this is nothing new... either they meet our needs or they cease to exist.

believing that you have no choice only prolongs bad management and stifles real change.

one exception or instance does not define the relationship.

when someone tolerates your lies do you stop ? no it seems to work

when someone sells you a faulty product and you accept it ...will they fix it ? no

If you what to believe you have no choice then you deserve what you get... nothing

sorry but this negative / downtrodden i cant do anything is why things are where they are at.

If you are looking for instant gratification then this will not help you (nothing will by the way)

But actively driving companies to improve their products does produce better products.

not all the companies may be in business in the end.

 

As they say " you can be part of the solution or part of the problem"


You will note that i did say for the most part we are not the ones holding the cards.

That is not to say that we dont complain when something is wrong or that we dont say what it is we want. check out some of my post on the lumia 800/900 and the new 808/pureview. If we dont say what is wrong nothing will get fixed.

 

And at no point did I say that we should just sit back and take what is given to us. I did say that we will get what Nokia and others wants to give to us. They are 2 entirely different things. Unfortunately as it stands at this very moment in time, the carriers do have the power to decide not to allow something, that part possible wont change, but that is not to say that we dont apply pressure to make them either reconsider or to change the way that they exercise their powers. You have to also understand that it is not always just the companies that may cause us issues, but the government and their relevant departments as well. I'm not saying that we cannot change things. You only have to look at what happened when Nokia initially decided not to supply the update to Australia, It was people like Andrew and others including myself who rang and spoke to nokia and the carriers. It was all of us that has managed to at least get the update process being looked at for Australia.

 

I'm afraid that you cannot just go and say "I dont like that , so its changed", you have to work with the cards that we have, used them the best way possible. Sometimes this will get you only a little way further ahead, and sometimes you can make big steps ahead.

 

As in a game of poker you are not the one that has all the cards, there are other players and you have to work at playing the best hand you can. And to be niave about it, and just say to them we control you, so you will do what we want,  will get you absolutely nowhere.

When I was very young about 8yo (i'm 45 now), we used to have the local baker come round our street in a little truck, selling their hot bread and rolls and cakes etc straight out of the truck. Best bread you could buy as far as I am concerned. They provided the best servcice, they knew your name. If something happened and you didnt leave out some money, but always got a loaf on that day. They would always leave the loaf for you anyway, and you would fix it up next time...Where are they now.? They are gone thats where. You want bread now you go to the supermarket. I totally understand market forces and the direction that everything is going. The service based industries cannot cope with the large corporations, and no matter how much we would like that kind of service again, you simply wont see that again.

 

Your right telling companies our wants and needs does drive them to produce what we want, but always at a cost. A cost that has to be balanced. Look at apple, they balance their costs by giving everyone the same mobile phone. Telcos love them, They get 1 update to test every 12 months or so, and have to supply no service to the units. Everyone is just referred back to apple. Nokia on the other hand try to produce several different handset every year,  All requiring different updates, all being tested at different time of the year, all requiring more time to sell on behalf of the telco staff. Apple profits are soaring and nokia who are trying to provide everything to everyone, have dropping profits.

 

So i do understand how things work and the economies of scale with business, I also understand that the biggest thing driving all of this, is not wants or needs or who has the most products. It the company that provides the biggest convenience to their customers. Why do customers stay with certain finance lenders even when they know they are paying more than some other lender down the road, Convenience (also known as laziness). Complaining about something is not convenient.

 

Oh by the way the more you complain the less you are heard. Maybe you have heard that before. Sometimes you need to accept things before you can change them. And if you cant accept how things are ( which is all I tried to illustrate previously), then you will never have any understanding of how to change them.

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Employee
J_Lo_
Posts: 37

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

Hi Everyone,

 

Please be assured that we will deliver on our promise to release Belle in Australia and New Zealand.  Our local team are working as hard as they can to prepare the release.  In the meantime, we appreciate your continued patience.

 

Thanks

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Contributor
naustuser
Posts: 5

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

Thank you for the brief update.

 

The public have known about this update for months.  Nokia would have been planning it for even longer.  Nokia had the worldwide release over a month ago.  The best information we have on the topic is your few lines in this forum.

 

So how much longer do you think it will be till someone from Nokia has the decency to advise existing Australian users when their phone will be updated the same as in any other country.

 

 

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Employee
J_Lo_
Posts: 37

Re: NOKIA Australia BELLE (I now have my doubts)

[ Edited ]

Hi Everyone,

Here is the official news on Belle for Australia.

We will begin a phased roll-out of Nokia Belle in the coming weeks, starting with the Nokia C6/C7/E6/N8 and then the Nokia X7 and E7. Please be aware that timings will vary depending on your operator.

Thanks

Jonathan from Nokia Care, Australia

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