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Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Sage
peterh338
Posts: 355

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

It IS OK to post IMEIs here. You just put XXXX in the last four digits. The mods have not removed those. Only if people start posting that kind of information will we have any hope of finding out when the bad stocks of 808s have been shifted. I am not buying an 808 until I see a clear indication of a working phone straight out of the box (even if it takes 6 months from now) because ALL 808s sold in the UK are grey imports and it is thus impossible to get them fixed by a Nokia service centre. And as I wrote a number of times, the Nokia centre I spoke to had no knowledge of this issue anyway. It's crazy to buy an HSPA phone and then (as Nokia suggests) disable HSPA, leaving 3G enabled, because the data rate drops by at least 5x. There is a massive difference in website browsing speed for example.
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Counsellor
fokrow
Posts: 35

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?


fokrow wrote:

I just called Nokia and they told me to go back to their website and put in another warranty claim.  I asked them if they could send me a replacement 808 first and then I'd send my defective one back and they said no.  So I guess I'll go back to my E7 for another week and hopefully they send me a working device this time.


I just received the replacement 808 for the defective replacement 808 Nokia Care had sent me a couple of weeks ago.  So all in all this is my tenth 808. Seven new ones from Amazon which were all defective, one used one from Amazon Warehouse Deals which was defective and two replacement 808's from Nokia Care.

 

They included a note with the new phone which shows the replacement phone they originally sent me threw a fault code of 4399 (the same fault the original one I sent them had).  And once again, this new phone was also built on the 26th week of 2012, its product code is 059P728 and its IMEI is 35196505058xxxx.  Based on when this was built and the IMEI number I'm not very confident this unit is going to work any better than the others but I'll give it a shot and report back.

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Counsellor
Piratepecke
Posts: 24

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

please guys check firmware. V 1508 is still availiable for some eastern markets. Maybe gvp1985 you have it maybe ? Switching to 1508 from 1507 on my new replacement phone seems to solved the buggy behaviour.(cfw). Now 3 days driving,transmitting and webradio streaming without ONE crash. Can someone with standard 1508 confirm that he has still crashes or buggy behavior with his 808 unit ????
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Sage
peterh338
Posts: 355

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

I contacted every Amazon.co.uk seller doing the 808 and those who replied (all did except BARL TRADING) all avoided making any comment on the HSPA issue. None would answer a direct question about it. 1 or 2 of them were willing to check their stock IMEIs and they were all within the "probably dud" range. Given the above man's post who is on his 10th 808 with the same fault, it seems obvious they must be aware of it. A few replied saying they offer a 30 day money back warranty. That's relevant, because if you get this issue you won't be able to get the phone fixed. Amazon itself doesn't sell the phone (they used to in mid-2012, briefly) so AIUI one doesn't get any kind of warranty from Amazon. Normally, Amazon is very good in taking stuff back without question but this doesn't apply when you buy from a trader within Amazon.
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Advisor
resetsmith
Posts: 9

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Finally i've got a good unit. My new 808 never failed while surfing since 6 days in HSPA mode. My previous one failed in the same condition several time a day. What digit of IMEI  (  aaaaaa/bb/cccccc/ee ) do you need ? I noticed that my battery is a BC-4D 1400maH 3.8v...

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Counsellor
pitoka
Posts: 28

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?


resetsmith wrote:

Finally i've got a good unit. My new 808 never failed while surfing since 6 days in HSPA mode. My previous one failed in the same condition several time a day. What digit of IMEI  (  aaaaaa/bb/cccccc/ee ) do you need ? I noticed that my battery is a BC-4D 1400maH 3.8v...


are you sure it's a BC-4D. Ijust tried to google that version and it doesn't exist.

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Advisor
resetsmith
Posts: 9

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

sorry, BV-4D 3.8V :smileywink:

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Counsellor
tf_translate
Posts: 69

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Peter, I think the information that my phone is a total early bird should suffice. I am, frankly, not sure that there is any good stock at all at this point of time. I fear that the few reports about working models could be just random phones that were lucky enough to be not affected on the off-chance. You see, the 808 is not being actively marketed (or do you know why country where this is the case? I don't), it could well be the case that they already have enough stocks to last until the first Windows phone with 41 MP will come out at which time they'll probably stop selling the 808.

 

What is very unfortunate indeed is the fact that the UK only has grey imports. That's drastic. I already wrote how enraged I am about the fact that I legally bought my phone in Ukraine while living there, now I live in Germany and I cannot get service here. This is hilarious. In the case of obvious manufacturing faults, Nokia should open their Service Centers for all phones irrespective of where they were bought. I see that it is a cost issue, but then again, how do they expect customers to switch to Lumia when they were left in the rain with their previous Nokia phone?

 

If there are enough affected users in the UK, maybe you get yourselves to gether and grey-import the replacement detail and find a grey workshop to do the replacement. I personally love my 808 so much that I would even have paid for the repair if I had no other option.

 

Or you could find out which country your phones are from. If you are lucky it is not Malaysia but some European country, in that case you could find peer users who will take your phone in to their countries' service for you.

 

I am still initerested to see reports from other users (e.g. from Germany - the 808 is being officialy sold here) about successful repairs like mine.

 

www.tf-translate.net
www.deutscheschule.kiev.ua
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Counsellor
pitoka
Posts: 28

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?


peterh338 wrote:

Where did you find those changelogs?????????????????

 

That's amazing stuff.

 

As to what this is...

 

I would put money on this:

 

HSPA needs a lot more power than 3G or anything lower. Probably 5x to 10x more power. (Obviously this is true only if data is being solidly transferred).

 

There is a power supply circuit which either can't quite deliver the current, or overheats after some time and shuts down.

 

I am an electronics hardware/software engineer but have never designed a whole phone. I have played with GSM/GPRS modem modules (RIM used to make those, before they found their mountain of gold with the Blackberry, after which they removed all the modem stuff from their website and sent a team of lawyers to harrass anybody whose website carried information on them, like mine did!) and they used to draw a LOT of power and more so when transmitting. But GPRS is nothing compared to HSPA in duty cycle of the transmitter.

 

There is no free lunch - megabit data rates need a LOT of power. One day I will measure the actual power draw of the phone with different widgets and apps running (needs a messy battery wire-up) but I would bet HSPA running solidly draws more power than the backlight on max brightness.

 

So the fix is probably not a "transistor" and certainly not a "capacitor" as widely written on the web.

 

They could probably do it in software by restricting the transmitter duty cycle, which would reduce the data rate, and would be "somewhat" unethical :smileyhappy:


That sounds sensible and would explain why the 3.5G crash problems are greatly diminished or absent when using a 3.8V battery. So a software fix might do the trick und maybe piratenpecke is right that firmware 1508 solves the problems. But it's not available in Western Europe or the USA.

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Counsellor
tf_translate
Posts: 69

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Maybe software can alleviate the problem, But remember: My phone was affected so badly that it even crashed in 3G mode without HSPA and once it even crashed in 2.5 G mode. So I had a transistor (or whatever microelectronic device was affected) that was extremely faulty and I don't think any software could have fixed that. Software might fix the issue for other phones that are affected less seriously, but still it is only a workaround for faulty hardware. Maybe they will deliver 1508 or a newer software soon simply to reduce the number of people that realize they have to return/repair their phone.

 

If you are affected and have warranty, I'd rather not wait for the software but try to get my device repaired, as I did.

 

1508 was available for a day or so in Ukraine, but I did not manage to install it in time when I was there and then it got pulled. So probably there were other issues with it.

 

www.tf-translate.net
www.deutscheschule.kiev.ua
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Sage
peterh338
Posts: 355

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

[ Edited ]

I bet you anything it isn't a faulty "transistor".

 

I've been in electronic design and manufacturing since 1978 and have not seen a faulty "transistor", especially one magically found in every 808! I reckon they have a MOSFET in there which switches the power to some part of the phone. That is quite normal; it is used to minimise power consumption. You switch off parts not used.

 

MOSFETs come in a wide variety of "ON" resistances, even within the same package and pinout. They might have designed in a type which has say a 1 ohm ON resistance and which at 0.2A will drop 0.2V. This drop is taking whatever it is feeding to below the rated operating voltage, causing the phone to crash. I would bet the service centre "fix" is to replace this 2 pence MOSFET with a 5 pence MOSFET whose ON resistance is say 0.2 ohm and which thus drops just 0.04V and thus avoids the issue. Or it will be something very similar to the above.

 

The bigger battery making the issue less likely points to this exact scenario. Has it ever happened to me? Don't ask :smileywink:

 

If you know how to open the phone and you can find out the mod details, the mod would be trivial. 5 mins with a soldering iron. After all, a Nokia service centre won't be anything more than somebody trained to use a screwdriver and a soldering iron, and who is in business purely because he is an official dealer and gets the confidential data and tools for flashing phones, changing the IMEI officially, etc, etc.

 

tf_translate - you could be right about the stock, in which case we are stuffed until somebody works out what the mod is. However, several of the grey importers suggested that I wait 2-3 months for the existing stocks to clear. They probably don't have a clue (most of them don't actually handle the phones but forward orders to some warehouse which ships them out) but they might know something.

 

I still think this is network dependent. Different networks are set up to deliver different speeds, under GPRS, 3G, HSPA, etc. They can choose the data rate according to how much they want to spend.

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Sage
JackS
Posts: 45

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Hi there, i have BV-4D 3,8v battery and my phone still crashes. Firmware is .1508 :smileyfrustrated:
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Sage
peterh338
Posts: 355

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Can you please post - country bought - country and network used - IMEI (with last 4 digits replaced with XXXX) otherwise nobody can work out what this means.
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Advisor
DerChirurg
Posts: 7

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Softwareupdate for a Hardwareproblem?Is it a solution?
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Advisor
resetsmith
Posts: 9

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

Now 7 days without a HSPA issue :smileywink:

 

Country bought : France

Network : SFR

Product code 059P6W5 ( UK country variant )

IMEI : 35196505174xxxx

 

 

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Sage
peterh338
Posts: 355

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

[ Edited ]

6505174xxxx is quite recent, more recent than any amazon.co.uk stock I know of, but not as recent as 6505191xxxx which was the other 808 reported as working. That is the latest IMEI I have yet come across.

 

I am not going to buy an 808 unless it is later than 6505191xxxx.

 

A software solution would IMHO definitely work. You just put an upper limit on the power output of the phone, when transmitting on HSPA :smileyhappy: On a GSM phone, the power output can be varied over something like a 100:1 range, with the max power used for the most distant towers. Hence 808 owners who spend their lives in big cities may never see the problem.

 

It's just a bit unethical to do that, because you end up with a phone which will have a poor range on HSPA, and will probably be set up to drop down to 3G at that point, or even down to GPRS which is barely usable (c. 20kbits/sec in Europe) and loads of services break on it due to the huge latency e.g. POP email retrieval.

 

It is a reasonable solution because, frankly, nobody expects a decent data rate with 1 or 2 bars of signal, which is all you get in ~ 90% of the UK countryside, and where HSPA doesn't exist anyway (it's GPRS only). And in southern Europe you get a strong HSPA signal almost everywhere (they seem to have installed modern gear).

 

I am sure the many Nokia engineers (now working under Accenture) who are reading this are laughing their heads off :smileyhappy:

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Counsellor
vlado3g
Posts: 164

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

[ Edited ]

^ you think they read this board ? I have my doubts :smileyhappy: and who reported that particular imei as a working one ?

 

Got my 3rd one yesterday, but I haven't moved around much.. and I don't have my SD card in there. Its on 1508. so far.. no restarts. Battery is bv-4d

 

My first one from amazon was: 35196 5050 64xxxx (restarts)

 

Second one from Nokia Care was: 35196 5050 58xxxx (restarts.. worse than my first one)

 

Third one from Nokia Care is: 35196 5050 61xxxx (non so far, 20 hours of usage on HSPA)

 

So thechincally my first one was the newest one from the line ? All 3 are 26/2012

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Counsellor
tf_translate
Posts: 69

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

 

Yes, Peter, the guy whom I talked to at Nokia Care was a desk clerk who did not know technical terminology well, plus we were speaking in Russian, a foreign language to me. So when I say "transistor" it is just a placeholder for the actual device on the board that is faulty. Your MOSFET theory is quite likely to be true. It is also true that the issue is worse in the countryside.

 

The software fix you talk about raises various issues. Nokia would not want to apply such a heavy limitation on phones that are not affected, so they could only distribute such a software update to selected devices provided they know which devices are affected and which not. Also I wonder about the ethical ramifications of limiting the affected devices by software in the hope that the customer will not return their phone if it is slow as to compared to if it locks up. Finally, as my device shows, some devices are more severly affected than others, so for certain devices, the software update could also have the effect of simply reducing the frequency of lock-ups and restarts (instead of eliminating them completely). This again raises ethical issues - it would look like an attempt by Nokia to simply reduce the number of users that take the pain of RMAing their phone rather than as a true fix for the problem. Maybe Nokia could publish such a "workaround fix" via Betalabs to ease the pain of those who are affected but don't have warranty.

 

So unless Nokia changes their service policy, our friends in England really only have the choice to wait until someone works out the fix on their own (which constintutes reverse engineering, and that someone would probably not be allowed to post their solution on the web, at least not here).

 

I think that Nokia should publish the solution, offer it free of charge to all devices that have warranty, and offer it at a reasonable (discounted?) price to all users who don't (like those in UK who bought via Amazon merchants).Certainly paying a reasonable sum for the repair is better than not being able to have the repair at all. Come on, Nokia, you had a profit in Q4, surely you can show some goodwill to users of your flagship mobile imaging device!?

 

www.tf-translate.net
www.deutscheschule.kiev.ua
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Counsellor
vlado3g
Posts: 164

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

[ Edited ]

As expected, the latest device from Nokia care USA has the exact same issue. I was uploading some pictures today, and .. bam..so far I've had two restarts today. 

 

It seems like all the "5050" or older imei's are probably bad, which is most likely what all Amazon and Nokia Care have in stock at the moment. They need to send those back and to a "bulk repair", or... something. I am still surprised that Amazon sells them at all... 

 

The Nokia USA care center has no clue how to fix them, they just keep sending new phones.. which is nice, the customer service is pretty great, its just that the problem is not getting fixed. 

 

My phone has the 3.8v BV-4D batt and the latest 1508 software. 

 

I will try to keep the phone charging in the car, and see if that helps while driving.. otherwise.. pretty much a 2G/3G phone with no HSPA, which is unacceptable. 

 

 

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Counsellor
perusen
Posts: 24

Re: Bug in 808 3g mobile data?

contry bought: Sweden
used in Sweden on carrier Telia SE
Firmware 1507
3.8V battery
IMEI 35196505123xxxx, product code 059M960
No crashes or reboots related to HSPA. Recently tested uploading ten full-sized photos via cutebox on HSPA located on a commuter train which - no crashes :smileywink:

/Per
NL930BL
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