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Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Counsellor
Posts: 31

E75 messaging FAIL

All I want is what I thought the E75 would deliver... straight forward sync'ing with gmail email, contacts and calendar. Turns out, unless anyone can show me otherwise, that this is beyond Nokia's most advanced messaging phone to date. So over to Google Sync (http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/topic.py?topic=14298).

 

Firstly, you have to fool the E75 because the interface assumes you want to use Nokia Messaging if you enter your gmail or gmail apps email address. I don't! Particularly if Nokia is going to charge for a service that doesn't do everything I need.  You fool it by entering an email address with a URL that doesn't exist eg, me@yteiroskapskrke.com. The phone is then forced to ask if you wish to set up "Corporate" email, as Google Sync requires.

 

Select "Corporate", and proceed to set everything as Google Sync for S60 stipulates (available from the link above). And nothing. Says it's connecting, says it syncing, but nothing. And given my experience of Google's software and Nokia's, I'm betting the problem lies with the phone's software.

 

BTW, the E75 has, or so I understand, Mail For Exchange preloaded. No, I know, it isn't clear.

 

So I thought I'd try setting up another with another Gmail account I have.  This time I get as far as selecting "Corporate" and then, this is (not) funny, I get a screen with one radio buttoned menu item... "Help to select". Would I like help selecting from the other options that aren't offered to me? Genious.

 

So after 3 hours I have no synchronisation. My wife bought the iPhone, and she's been watching TV for the past 2 hours and 50 mins.

 

Help?

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

So after much trial and error over two days (versus a 10 minute job for the same task on my wife's iPhone), it seems the following is needed to do the "simple" task of sync'ing the E75 and Gmail:

Gmail email needs Nokia Messaging service (which could become a paid for service according to the terms of service)

Gmail contacts needs the S60 sync process
http://www.google.com/support/mobile...y?answer=98230

Gmail calendar needs Mail For Exchange, as painful as that process is given that Nokia chose to redesign the whole interface for the E75 versus earlier E series.
http://www.google.com/support/mobile...?answer=147951

Crazy situation.
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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Update...

 

Gmail calendar via MFE, per my last comment, is not working. I have no calendar synchronisation which of course, in the course of business, is a little bit of a handicap. Printing out my gmail calendar daily at the moment, and thinking about returning my E75 as not fit for purpose and getting an iPhone instead.

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

And did I mention that the phone doesn't allow me to search through my contacts. I have to scroll throught the 500+ to find the one I need!

/discussions/board/message?board.id=communicators&thread.id=40966

 

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Well, might as well continue to document my miserable experiences right under Nokia's nose here, even if they chose to ignore these threads. I didn't realise I had to invite a Nokia rep to drop in on its own forum, but for the record, do please come on in.

 

Just invited Nokia's UK Marketing Director Will Harris to meet up to discuss Nokia's reticence to engage with their customers here, and I've gone outside of this forum now to Nokia's Twitter profile @nokiamessaging to see if I can get any response there.

 

You can see my open letter to Will on this thread..

/discussions/board/message?board.id=communicators&thread.id=40966

(comment number 11).

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Employee
Posts: 75

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

I'm on an E75 with an ATT SIM with about 500 contacts and don't have the problem. You've got a lot list here so I'll try to take it in order.

 

I think you're taking what is designed to be a really simple process and making it harder for yourself (though I admit, it could be clearer). To set up email on your E75, you type in your email address and password, for ANY kind of account. Nokia Messaging is being offered bundled by some operators with a data plan, but your E75 includes a lifetime subscription to Nokia Messaging - you're making things more difficult for yourself by intentionally putting in a bogus email address to avoid it, just type in your gmail and go. Same thing with an exchange account - put in your details and it starts syncing (yes, MFE is preloaded, all you have to do is, again, type in your email address and password for ANY kind of email account). This is different than with previous Nokias, but I like to think it's easier as well.

 

I work on Nokia Messaging, so I can't speak to your sync question with Google, but I've done Gmail contact sync before without problems (never tried calendar).

 

Let me know if I can answer more questions.

 -Davis Fields

Nokia Messaging 

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Hi davisfields,

 

Many thanks for your reply.

 

It's not quite that simple I'm afraid. Your suggestion is the first thing I tried. I got Google email sync'ing straight away, but no contacts or calendar. The instructions Google issues for IMAP on S60 are at the following URL but they don't work for the E75 as the flow has changed from MFE on the E71, E61i etc.

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7888

 

I could only get contacts by using Google sync per the instructions at the following URL, but again, because the software has been changed on the E75, these instructions don't marry the actual process very well, and in particular there's no way I can find to get it to do the calendar as Google says it should.

http://www.google.com/support/mobile/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=147951

 

Moreover, the phone won't search my 500+ contacts... I get the same symptoms as described here...

/discussions/board/message?board.id=communicators&thread.id=40966

 

So whilst I appreciate your response, you haven't given me anything new to work with I'm afraid. Perhaps Nokia could simply publish a "how-to" for sync'ing Google email, contacts and calendar, as you see it, and then we can point out where the process breaks on our phones. I'm sure you'll agree, it should be considerably simpler than I've found it. I'm an IT-savvy Chartered Engineer, so short of having a doctorate in Nokia S60, I'm not sure what you expect of your customers!

 

Look forward to any further help you can offer.

 

Best, Philip.

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Sage
sanjaymehta
Posts: 226

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

[ Edited ]

Davis, I just saw the E75 in a store today. If there's one thing which puts me off that phone, it's the impression that the sales guy gave me - that the only way to do email was over the new client.

 

Now I know that you work on it and probably won't be able to react directly. The requirement from marketing is probably to get it to be dead simple for people like my father to use, but you must let experienced users get at the inner settings.

 

At this time, the Nokia Messaging client on my E71 is just a toy which I occasionally fire up to see if it still works. At this time, I just don't trust it - see my wailing and gnashing of teeth on the Beta Blog. 


And just BTW, if Nokia thinks I'm going to pay to pull email off Google or Yahoo, forget it. The E71 will become my last Nokia.
Message Edited by sanjaymehta on 05-Jun-2009 09:16 PM
Sanjay Mehta
Motorola "Brickphone" circa 1996, Alcatel One Touch, Ericsson R380, Sony Ericsson T220, Sony Ericsson T630, Nokia E50, Nokia E61i, Nokia 9300i, Nokia E71,Nokia X6, Google Nexus S, iPhone 4S
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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Hey sanjaymehta, great points well made. I'm going to track down your contributions to the beta blog now. But as for the pricing, I think I'm guessing right from what I've read and Davis' contribution, that whilst someone pays for Nokia Messaging, it might not be you directly... ie, it's paid by the operator who then passes the cost onto you in the handset and contract pricing.

 

I get your drift though... how complicated can this stuff be that anyone is going to pay for it?  It is now an 'order qualifier' not an 'order winning' capability.

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Sage
sanjaymehta
Posts: 226

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Here's the original Nokia Blog entry:

 

http://betalabs.nokia.com/blog/2008/12/17/nokia-email-service-graduates-as-part-of-nokia-messaging

 

This is kind of old, and to give the Nokia Messaging team credit, they did address a bunch of issues which a lot of people (myself included) are talking about in the comments on this page.

 

My personal take on this tool/service is that they've tried to go overboard on making end users transparent to things like imap/pop/smtp servers, not to mention SSL and port numbers.

 

The last time I checked, it couldn't  reliably pull my email off a domain hosted on the google apps service. It registered and worked for a while, and a few days later just decided to fail.

 

 

Sanjay Mehta
Motorola "Brickphone" circa 1996, Alcatel One Touch, Ericsson R380, Sony Ericsson T220, Sony Ericsson T630, Nokia E50, Nokia E61i, Nokia 9300i, Nokia E71,Nokia X6, Google Nexus S, iPhone 4S
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Employee
Posts: 75

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Peter, I've answered all the questions related to the service I work on, I can't speak to syncing over with the Google calnedars/contacts.

 

You are allowed to use the email client for direct IMAP/POP access and plug in all your own settings. You can also use third-party programs for email if you want - we're not forcing you into this. Nokia Messaging is extremely easy to set up in 99% of all cases, but when it's not working, we haven't disabled direct POP/IMAP (just decline the terms of service when they appear for Nokia Messaging, and you're in direct-access).

 

-Davis 

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Hi Davis,

 

By "Peter" I assume you may be addressing me, Philip.

 

I can only thank you again for being the one person at Nokia to lend this issue some attention, although I would have thought sync'ing with Google mail, contacts and calendar may have warranted more proactive responses.

 

And with all due respect, you have not answered the questions from the perspective of the service on which you work. (Although Nokia's customers don't divide the phone up into different sections depending on how Nokia structures its organisation BTW.) I asked that Nokia publish a simply "how to" for the E75 in regard to the matters at hand here, and that's something I believe you could do.

 

Please come back here and let us know when it's available. If Nokia cannot provide such a "simple" set of instructions in response to this thread next week, then I'll take that as an admission that the phone is not fit for such a simple purpose and return the phone to Carphone Warehouse as not fit for purpose accordingly.

 

And let's not forget that we need one of your colleagues from the "unsearchable contacts" department to solve this other problem more universally:

/discussions/board/message?message.uid=472341#U472341

 

I do hope my sarcasm doesn't put you off replying... you will understand I hope how such frustration causes us Brits to adopt a sarcastic approach sometimes. It is a national trait, not simply mine.

 

Best regards, Philip.

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Counsellor
Posts: 93

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

I am still very idsappointed in Noika messaging.  It continue to only work occasioanlly.  I have not received an email over the phone in two days even though I can send emails.  I am going to try and reinstall (for the 4th time) and see if that fixes it.  There is no way I would ever pay for Nokia messaging and the email product that is in the E71 is bad.  I am very disappointed in Nokia products and doubt I will ever buy another one.  They make great hardware, but the software needs a lot of work.
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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Hey Mike,

 

Don't give up on Nokia yet!  Hopefully, they're going to publish some useful "how-to"'s which will show us the way. The last message was Friday, so give'em another weekday at least :-)

 

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Counsellor
Posts: 93

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

psheldrake

 

Thanks, but my Nokia E71 has been the biggest disappointment of any phone I have owned over the last 10 years.  It had great reviews, guess I expected too much.  Other than missing WiFi, I found my old Motorola Q9h to be a much better phone (inspite of a more confusing menu system).  There are just too many software issues with the E71. (poor messaging, contacts don't sync consistently when you have multiple addresses, recurring appointment are hard to schedule and don't sync cleanly,camera is terrible if you don't have a huge amount of light).  Its a shame because so much of the hardware is good (build quality, keyboard, GPS, WiFi integration).  But messaging to me is huge deal.  I use it for work and it just doesn't measure up. 

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

Ah, another week goes by printing off Google calendar because Nokia's most advanced messaging phone ever can't sync with it.  And if there is a way, Team Nokia is obviously going to keep it to themselves.  No sign of a 'simple' how-to guide for the E75 yet.

 

I'm going to give it until end-June before declaring the phone not fit for purpose and returning it for a phone that can sync easily.

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New Member
Posts: 2

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

It's sad to realize that an important feature like messagin is given so little attention by Nokia. I have installed Nokia messaging in my N85 and one day it just stopped retrieving my messages, just like that. It was great while it worked, but it hasn't worked for the past week or so.

 

Now I'm wondering why my emails have to pass through a Nokia server just so I can have "push email"... PUSH EMAIL? Really? Is that what you people call the ability to connect to a server from time to time and retrieve emails? Why can't the internal email client do that? Why can't it download entire messages instead of just headers? Why doesn't the internal email client support html email?

 

I detect a strategy error by Nokia here. It seems they're honding back on features on the internal client so they can sell their Nokia Messaging service in the future. Bad move. It will ultimately turn customers away from the brand, as email is a big factor in the phone purchase decision process, and IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED WITH AS MANY FEATURES AS POSSIBLE.

 

I am starting to feel extremely uncomfortable as I get the feeling all the fun I've made of my friends who got iPhones is coming back to bite me in the **bleep**... If I see myself forced to buy one of those horrid things I'll never see the end of it.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY I am going to spend money on a third party email client like Profimail. And the perspective of having to connect to a server which in its turn connects to my email server is really annoying, besides there being a huge security issue in this architecture.

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Counsellor
Posts: 31

Re: E75 messaging FAIL

wdeny, unfortunately, I couldn't agree more. This is turning into a serious own-goal for Nokia.
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Mobile Guru
mccbleue
Posts: 3,905

Re: E75 messaging FAIL


wdeny wrote:
 

Now I'm wondering why my emails have to pass through a Nokia server just so I can have "push email"... PUSH EMAIL? Really? Is that what you people call the ability to connect to a server from time to time and retrieve emails? Why can't the internal email client do that? Why can't it download entire messages instead of just headers? Why doesn't the internal email client support html email?

 


No, it isn't.

 

What you describe is 'polling e-mail', the mail client connects to the server at preset intervals and retrieves whatever mail is there. 

 

Push e-mail is a service where the message is sent by the server to the client as soon as it arrives, the client does not need to initiate the connection. This form of e-mail is popular with business users who need their mail ASAP but they also need to keep costs down so the limit their data usage. 

 

The internal client can't do push e-mail because push e-mail needs to be controlled from the server side where the messages are received, doing it from a mail client would still need the client to connect to the server to see if there was anything to download - and that would not be 'push', it would be 'polling'.

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New Member
Posts: 2

Re: E75 messaging FAIL


mccbleue wrote:

No, it isn't.

 

What you describe is 'polling e-mail', the mail client connects to the server at preset intervals and retrieves whatever mail is there. 

 

Push e-mail is a service where the message is sent by the server to the client as soon as it arrives, the client does not need to initiate the connection. This form of e-mail is popular with business users who need their mail ASAP but they also need to keep costs down so the limit their data usage. 

 

The internal client can't do push e-mail because push e-mail needs to be controlled from the server side where the messages are received, doing it from a mail client would still need the client to connect to the server to see if there was anything to download - and that would not be 'push', it would be 'polling'.


 

I'm familiar with the concept actually. What I meant was I was under the impression that Nokia Messaging was supposed to be "Push email", and as far as my experience went it isn't. Unless there's some obscure configuration one must perform in order to get that feature working (like Philip pointed out, if that's the case we're missing a howto doc here).

 

Besides in fact polling email is quite sufficient for my needs, however html mail capability, download of the entire message body (without attachments) and a lightweight polling process would be the minimum I would expect from a decent email client.

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