Search Discussions:
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Do you mean 
Advanced Search...
Welcome to Nokia Support Discussions! Here you can share advice and tips with thousands of other Nokia users around the world in English. Many Nokia employees also follow and participate in the discussions, see our guidelines for more information. Everyone can search and read the discussions, but to post your own question or reply to others, simply sign in with your Nokia account. If this is your first time here, you can choose an alias to represent you. And if you don't have a Nokia account yet, please register.
Reply

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noi...

Counsellor
wkl12mr
Posts: 117

Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

I have returned from a trip to Nokia and they say they can't find anything wrong with the camera. The customer care rep said it was a software or firmware issue but can't tell me when the problem can be rectified because no firmware exists to solve this problem.

 

What are your thoughts on this? Technicians checked and found nothing wrong with the camera. I can post photos if needed but others have already posted photos previously.

Please use plain text.
Advisor
leonard2
Posts: 18

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

[ Edited ]

I tested below.

 

ISO1600_MicroUSBPortHeadToTheLeft.jpg
    Hold the 808 in normal way (Face the 4" screen and Micro USB port head to the left side).
    The picture shows purple noise gradient (right to middle).

 

ISO1600_MicroUSBPortHeadToTheRight.jpg
    Turn the phone 180 degrees (Face the 4" screen and Micro USB port head to the right side).
    The picture shows purple noise gradient (left to middle).

 

The 2 pictures's setting:

Creative mode
Flash: off
EV: 0.0
White Balance: Auto
ISO: 1600
ND filter: Auto
Focus mode: Close-up (Focus on the PC case)
Sensor mode: PureView ("Full resolution" is same as the result)
Resolution: 5MP ("8MP" is same as the result)
Aspect ratio: 16:9 ("4:3" is same as the result)
JPEG quality: Superfine ("Normal" is same as the result)
Colour tones: Normal
Capture mode: Normal
Staturation, Contrast and Sharpness, etc are default values

 

Relative link:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Review: Nokia 808 PureView
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8083837371/review-nokia-808-pureview/3
Interestingly, in all of the images, noise is noticeably more intense in the right half of the images than it is elsewhere in the scene. This isn't due to the position of the light in our setup - our tungsten lamp was positioned on the left - but probably due to amp glow, maybe caused by heat, originating from a component positioned behind or adjacent to the 808's sensor inside the tightly-packed body of the phone.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
What's happening to the Nokia 808 Pureview @ ISO 1600?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/42011942

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Noise Gradient (Right to Middle of a picture) visible at ISO 800 and 1600.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/808pureview/discuss/72157630670286184/

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
09-29-2012 Nokia 808 PureView Quick Review
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/f41/nokia-808-pureview-quick-review-12967/
Despite having a relatively large sensor, Nokia 808 PureView is not usable above ISO 400, partly because of heavy banding which appears at ISO 800 and especially ISO 1600.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Oct 2012
@PhoneDaz My 808 always get purple noise full of right part of the image when shooting at iso 1600, is that normal?

http://twitter.com/optios40/status/259313747649245184/photo/1

http://twitter.com/optios40/status/259313747649245184

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
07-07-2012 作者: Wai, Nokia 808 PureView 夜拍、操作系統實測
http://www.ringhk.com/report2.php?id=5420

 

Please use plain text.
Counsellor
wkl12mr
Posts: 117

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

I have got my phone back and Nokia Care insists that I wait 1 month because hopefully a new firmware will be out by then. They said their support staff checked the phone and can't find the problem with the hardware after replacing the motherboard. It may be a sensor issue but I cannot get any answers from them. They didn't indicate that they replaced the sensor.

 

Teardown of 808

Please use plain text.
Advisor
leonard2
Posts: 18

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

I saw your post at dpreview.com
    Was the 808 designed to be used in Auto ISO?
    I've been testing my 808 which just came back from repair. Nokia swapped the phone's motherboard for me and the purple haze is gone but it seems that right side at ISO 1600 is extremely noisy compared to the left. I don't see this problem when Auto ISO is used or when I use 8MP mode.
 
You said "the purple haze is gone but it seems that right side at ISO 1600 is extremely noisy compared to the left".
May I ask for some ISO 1600 sample attachments please?

 

Do you think that Nokia really know how to fix the problem?

 

Please use plain text.
Counsellor
wkl12mr
Posts: 117

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Hi

 

I have to wait until after New Year to collect my phone from Nokia. I re-sent my phone in again for them to reexamine it. It's a public holiday today so the Care Center is closed. Not sure if anything can be done about the phone. So far they have suggested a firmware issue. There are other issues like the inability to select multiple pictures in Gallery Grid.

Please use plain text.
Advisor
leonard2
Posts: 18

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Sorry for my poor english.

I try to describe how to reproduce the banding purple noise image.

According to my experience, it happens every time there is a darker area at the right portion of the image and brighter object(ex. light, etc) come from the middle or left side.

 

I have ever got the banding purple noise even at ISO 400. :smileysad:

 

I upload some sample images and let you know what I am talking about.

 

optios40_A5lEesZCMAE3yE5.jpg

    @PhoneDaz My 808 always get purple noise full of right part of the image when shooting at iso 1600, is that normal?

    http://twitter.com/optios40/status/259313747649245184/photo/1

 

stratokaster_jY3KZr3dGYY7bj7iWd36.jpg

    09-29-2012 Nokia 808 PureView Quick Review

    http://www.seriouscompacts.com/f41/nokia-808-pureview-quick-review-12967/

 

Jake499_8236635196_42627d93c2_k.jpg

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/54031009@N07/8236635196/sizes/l/in/photostream/

 

I hope that Nokia can fix the problem ASAP.

 

Please use plain text.
Advisor
leonard2
Posts: 18

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

banding purple noise samples part 2

 

Jaxx75_example1.jpg
    808 Pureview Bug: High ISO purple tint on image
    http://discussions.nokia.com/t5/Nseries-and-Symbian-Smartphones/808-Pureview-Bug-High-ISO-purple-tin...

 

Xpress_Shutter_F9976A45A4B14579831E0DF2FC58FBC3.jpg
    What's happening to the Nokia 808 Pureview @ ISO 1600?
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/42011942

 

Wai_20120705_pureview808_night_shoot_pic1600.jpg
    07-07-2012 作者: Wai, Nokia 808 PureView 夜拍、操作系統實測
    http://www.ringhk.com/report2.php?id=5420

 

Please use plain text.
Counsellor
wkl12mr
Posts: 117

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Please use plain text.
Counsellor
smeggypants
Posts: 34

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Yes I get this purple tint on the right side of the image too. Highly annoying. I've even created a Develop Preset in Lightroom to compensate for it by applying a grad filter with tint, exposrue and contrast adjuetments.

Please use plain text.
Counsellor
wkl12mr
Posts: 117

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

I have contacted Nokia via email about this issue and they seem to think the problem lies with the 808's AMOLED screen and not the camera's output. They don't seem to understand the real issue.

 

"With regard to your concern regarding the purple tint, kindly be advised that this is due to performance restrictions of AMOLED displays in certain brightness conditions. Short-time purple discolorations (purple tint) on the display can be seen in the type of AMOLED displays used in the Nokia 808 PureView in the following situations:

• In dark room conditions, when the display is automatically adjusted to lower luminance level to maximize dark room readability
• In bright sunlight, when the phone's display is automatically adjusted to maximum luminance to enable the best possible readability
• If a user wakes up the phone from dimmed mode, a purple tint can be seen as a transition effect when changing the display brightness

Until the software update is available, you can address the situation by going to “settings” and then “phone”, “display” and “brightness” on their device. Once there, shift the brightness switch towards “maximum” . This will improve colour tones.

On the other hand, in the event that the issue still persists, we recommend that you bring your device to have it assessed by our authorized technician."

Please use plain text.
Advisor
leonard2
Posts: 18

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

[ Edited ]

@wkl12mr

Nokia seem to think the banding noise problem lies with this
    Nokia 808 PureView Purple tint QA Comms statement - Nokia FAQ
    http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/support/troubleshooting/?action=singleFAQ&caseid=FA139666_en_US

 

Nokia N8 maybe have the high iso banding noise problem too.
    N8 vs Satio - Camera Shootout
    http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=199570&start=15

 

    N8 photos worse than N82?
    http://discussions.nokia.com/t5/Nseries-and-Symbian-Smartphones/N8-photos-worse-than-N82/td-p/776004...
    I have had some issues with noise on the N8 camera - especially weird noisy horizontal lines

 

NokiaN8_Iso434_09122010413.jpg
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9982/231120101379.jpg

 

NokiaN8_Iso559_09122010413.jpg
    http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5470/09122010413.jpg

 

Please use plain text.
Registered Member
bigs88
Posts: 1

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

I found that using a grdient based color balance on the right hand side is all that is needed to remove the blue tint right hand side of high iso images.

 

Since then I have made a basic macro which does it all in a simple clikc of the macro action and run.

Please use plain text.
Advisor
Xpress_Shutter
Posts: 13

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Hello, all.

 

I was one of the first to acknowledge this issue with the 808 Pure View. See my topic already mentioned above at dpreview.com.

 

It's absolutely ridiculous from Nokia not saying a single word on this topic until now. They all praise the advantage of the 'oversampling' algorithms. I've heard a lot that noise would be diminished with that 'revolutionary new technology'. In practice, what happens is that both ISO 800 and 1600 are pretty much useless half of the time. For all practical Shutter Speeds below 1/60 s the 'amp glow' effect is quite prominent.

 

The way I see, the problem becomes more apparent when we shoot a scene with dark colors at the right side of the frame.

 

See my attached examples to see what I mean. Noise, in general, is kept under control, but that blue area with band noise absolutely ruins the image.

 

Nokia, would you at least admit that as a REAL problem?

 

Thanks.

Please use plain text.
Advisor
Xpress_Shutter
Posts: 13

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Those images you've attached were taken with my already sold N8. I will add some more from the same place taken with the 808 for comparison.

 

I've had two N8's and both had the same problem at higher ISO's.

 

I guess that Nokia should work harder with their sensor manufacturer in order to get high ISO shots right. The band noise in recent flagship models and this 'amp glow' issue in the 808 is unbearable.

 

It feels like the 808 has been released before being completely finished.

 

 

Please use plain text.
Advisor
leonard2
Posts: 18

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

@wkl12mr @smeggypants @bigs88 @Xpress_Shutter

 

I found the 38MP 7152*5368 ISO1600 purple banding noise dark frame image, but it may be damaged.:smileysad:

    weimin chen's SkyDrive, 2012-03-27-0003

    https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=e720e63282aae093&id=E720E63282AAE093%21135&sff=1

 

Maybe the dark frame image can be used for post-processing in the GIMP or Photoshop (Layers and Subtract, etc.).

I try to crop it and downsize to 8MP below.

 

Please use plain text.
Sage
peterh338
Posts: 355

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

Unless I am doing something different, I don't think every 808 has this problem.

 

Mine doesn't. It works OK in low light, and frankly any pocket camera I have ever used is rubbish in low light. My Pentax K5 (cost GBP 1500 with a lens, 2 years ago) is OK in low light...

Please use plain text.
Counsellor
smeggypants
Posts: 34

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?

The magenta/purple upper right side tint isn't jsut apparent at high ISOs, it appears at lower ISOs as well.  it is my guess it's a heat issue from a componant close to that area of the snesor. I make this conclusion because it seems to fro the firs 10 minutes of leaving the camera on and then remaing there for the rest of the time I have the camera on.

Please use plain text.
New Member
SharpView
Posts: 3

Re: Is the 808 Right Side High ISO Banding and Noise Problem a Hardware or Firmware issue?


peterh338 wrote:

Unless I am doing something different, I don't think every 808 has this problem.

 

Mine doesn't. It works OK in low light, and frankly any pocket camera I have ever used is rubbish in low light. My Pentax K5 (cost GBP 1500 with a lens, 2 years ago) is OK in low light...


It's not there everytime. It's only on a number of occasions at higher ISO speeds.

Please use plain text.