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Re: Nokia obituary

Professor
froschy
Posts: 622

Re: Nokia obituary

@iannicholson - I certainly agree with your comment that Nokia have too many phones. Nokia should move to a model where they have a maximum of 4-5 E & N series phones and they should also put faster CPUs and a decent amount of RAM in them. Then they could focus on the stability and UI, only updating the hardware when either the CPU/RAM combo can't cope or when adding new hardware features. Until Nokia do something like this they will continue to lose market share in the smartphone segment.
Nokia N97 (RM-507) v 22
iPhone 4 (Coming Soon) - Lemon N97 - SE - Nokia 8210 - Nokia 7710 - Nokia 5100
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Sage
Posts: 78

Re: Nokia obituary

Dear Vandelay,

 

While I appreciate your noble sentiment, I am forced to refute your statements.

 

1) As any customer service expert will tell you, for every one customer that complains, there are another 50 who would, but do not.

2) Nokia's track record for customer service of late has been APPALLING! Please, check my 'customer service' record with Nokia - NUMEROUS emails and phone calls WITHOUT response - despite confirmatory emails from Nokia saying I would be contacted with 48 hours. 

3) Nokia's outright REFUSAL to listen or respond to its customers is the entire point of this thread. YOU should take this seriously!

 

Looking around this forum, and having had direct experience of Nokia's products of late is all the proof one needs to see that Nokia is guilty of releasing sub-standard, untested products onto an unsuspecting but surprising loyal customer base. However, to paraphrase the saying, you can only fool all the people some of the time.

 

When I got my N96 a year ago, I posted a whole list of problems with this phone. What did I get? A suspension for "upsetting other customers". Nice going, Nokia!

 

Nokia LIED about this phone's capabilities - especially to Australian customers. Oh yes, we had all the TV commercials showing how we could all watch TV on our N96es - I ought to rally up a class action against Nokia for that lie alone - and I have a very good barrister who would easily win it.

 

A full year on, and I STILL am unable to upgrade my firmware from 12.043, (current version is 30.033) because Nokia has quite literally abandoned N96 customers in Asia-Pacific. Want proof? Go to your OWN website here:-

 

 http://www.nokia-asia.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/nokia-n96

 

And if you're honest, you'll come back and tell us what the latest firmware offering is for N96 customers in Asia-Pac.That's 12 months we've been left without ANY update.

 

Nokia should hang its head in shame! And THAT'S why I'm collecting my new iPhone tomorrow - my first non-Nokia phone in more than 15 years, and like xsatquest, I'm as mad as hell about it.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Ian Nicholson

 

 

 

 

Ian Nicholson
Poor Sod/N96 Owner
------------------------------------
Nokia: Connecting People... with iPhones.
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Sage
Posts: 194

Re: Nokia obituary

[ Edited ]

After doing without my N97 for a week while it went off to the NokiaUSA repair center to get the "official" GPS fix implemented, and after installing the v20 firmware upgrade, doing a four-fingered HARD RESET, reformatting the E: drive and reconfiguring/reinstalling everything from scratch (not from a BACKUP/RESTORE), I am disappointed to find that the latest Nokia Maps and Map data are still a JOKE.  (see my other posts in the GPS sub-forum for details).

 

Three firmware updates and they still have not fixed the GPS driver and Maps software problems.

 

I am envisioning a new series of television commercials....similar to where they have two guys on the screen, one is the Mac and the other is Windows. The one constantly belittles the other who just makes excuses.

 

Apple will now be able to have a commercial where they pit the iPhone against the N97.

 

I wonder who they will cast in each of the roles?

Message Edited by rdcinhou on 01-Nov-2009 11:07 AM
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Sage
Posts: 78

Re: Nokia obituary

iannicholson you wont regret the switch to an iphone, i binned my N97 after months of problems, and after only 2 weeks, i can say that yes, on paper it is easy to beat an iphone as several phones already do, and yes Apple has a few quircks like bluetooth being locked that will drive you mad, but the product feels elegant and expensive, and functions like a finished polished product, now Nokia can boost their products polish on the outside, but inside the finish and feel of the software will never be there, and with the wierd way nokia goes about its firmware, and update shedule, it will never catch up.

 

 

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Counsellor
Posts: 34

Re: Nokia obituary

@Fishfingers.

 

Nokia's problem is that they have stuck with a seriously outdated OS for their phones for WAAAAY to long.


The Symbian S60 OS is just simply NOT able to drive today's features and the processor line that supports that OS is also lacking very heavily in processing power. So basically Nokia has an outdated OS that runs on antiquated hardware.

 

S60 and old processors are FINE if all they want is to make mainstream feature thin phones but i they want to make phones that are also a camera, a radio, a music player, a GPS receiver with navigation software, a wifi enabled browser phone, a personal calendar and an alarmclock it's just not possible with the current hard/software.


It's like trying to run an office with a Pentium 200 computer with windows 98 and office 97 on in.

 

Also nokia has a funny way of doing things.

 

First they sit down and figure out what features a particular new phone needs, then they make the hardware, make a beta software end release the phone for sale and THEN they begin making bugfree software for that phone.

 

So basically everyone buying a new nokia model will be a nokia beta tester for the first period of time.

 

My N95 which i actually liked very much was not working to my satisfaction before after many months where numerous software updates were made.

 

I have a friend that do phone updates and unlocks and he constantly updates firmware on nokia's to help people get rid of bugs but he hardly ever has a samsung that needs updating. He says that this is because samsung test their software FAR more than nokia before they release their phones.

 

I am glad nokia does not make automobiles....I would NEVER dare buy a nokia car before it had been running for a few years and all the bugs straightened out.

 

The biggest problem is that nokia does not act like they were releasing this kind of phones but put the retail price way up as if their products were the best.

 

I have now had my HTC hero for a few weeks and i must say that if nokia want to catch up to this phone they need to do some SERIOUS running because it is lightyears ahead of anything nokia can sell me today.


Xsatquest

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Sage
Posts: 87

Re: Nokia obituary

xsatquest

 

I first read your post a few days ago, and wrote out almost a page long reply, agreeing entirely and unequiocally with your observations. My posts have not been as eloquent or as articulate as yours, and as a result I suffered a 24 hours ban from these discussion forums.

 

Sadly, I did make the mistake of buying an N97. I bought it sim free, handset only. I have no support from the retailer, who refuses exchanges and refunds ( very typical of mobile phone shops here in Saudi )  . I have no help at all from Nokia Customer Care ( Middle East and North Africa ) and from this " Discussion " Board, I just get told that I am not allowed to criticise Nokia. MENA Customer Care tell me to download the latest software - knowing full well it isn't available. This is the level of customer support.

 

Therefore, whatever warranty I had with the phone, becomes worthless.Rather than go into the faults with the phone, my total overall experience with Nokia has been heart breaking. I used to love their phones and would always recommend them to anyone, with hesitation. No more. The company are a total shambles. Oh dear - another criticism - another ban coming I fear. Well, I don't fear it actually, I relish it. It means Nokia don't like what they are hearing - the truth.

 

I wanted to post a reply, but then the post seemingly disappeared and I fear it again had been the victim of more rigorous 'moderator policing' as it wasn't kissing Nokia's backside enough. 

 

Good luck with your new phone, and I will also be joining you in giving Nokia an extremely wide berth in future. It's not all down to the device, it's the attitude of the company, it's staff, the customer support ( or lack of it ).

 

Thank you for an entertaining, informative and articulate post. I hope you don't suffer a ban as a consequence. 

 

 

 

Silver Nokia E72-1 UK
RM 530
FW: v31.023
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Technical Expert
michaels
Posts: 8,525

Re: Nokia obituary

The boards are run according to the guidelines issued by Nokia, and according to the terms and conditions that all users accept when joining the forum.

 

Constructive criticsim of Nokia products and/or services is fine, but all users need to remember that this is a peer-to-peer troubleshooting service, and we expect users to contribute as such. This forum is not a place to just vent your personal frustrations with your device, this detracts from the purpose of the forum to help those who want help.

 

Users who wish only to complain about Nokia Products and services are welcome to contact Nokia Care directly, and not to spoil this forum for those for whom it was created. Nobody is obliged to kiss Nokia's backside, but you are expected to treat the company, this community and the members of this community with due respect.


Nokia Lumia - the fastest growing smartphone

If this or any post answers your question, please remember to help others by pressing the 'Accept as solution' button.

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Sage
Posts: 78

Re: Nokia obituary

Dear Michaels,

 

Are you having a laugh?!

 

"Users who wish only to complain about Nokia Products and services are welcome to contact Nokia Care directly..."

 

I have done this, as I am sure many others have, via the Nokia 'Care' website form entry page on several occasions - dates and times documented elsewhere on this forum - each time I received a confirmatory receipt message saying someone would get back in 48 hours and so far I've not had a SINGLE reply. That was more than a year ago now.

 

"Nobody is obliged to kiss Nokia's backside, but you are expected to treat the company, this community and the members of this community with due respect."

 

Is this the same respect Nokia showed PAYING CUSTOMERS by dumping this untested rubbish on them? Face it. Nokia has betrayed its customers BIG TIME. Respect must be earned, and Nokia has sold it away.

 

 

 

Ian Nicholson
Poor Sod/N96 Owner
------------------------------------
Nokia: Connecting People... with iPhones.
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Counsellor
Posts: 37

Re: Nokia obituary


vandelay wrote:

Same goes for any other technical forum on the internet, there's hardly a product out there that seems worth buying if you only look at posts from forums.


Kind regards,

vandelay

 


This is exactly the attitude that is turning people off Nokia - just this aloof dismissal.  This statement is entirely incorrect. Almost every product over $100 I have purchased in the last 5 years has been chosed based on forum responses - whirlpool in Australia being the major one.  It is why I orginally purchased a N95, and why I delayed and ultimately decided against upgrading to a N97 to see what the N900 would be like (which it now turns out, will not be released in Australia for some bizarre marketing reason).

 

This is the reason I purchased a MSI Wind over a eeePC and Kogan netbook.  It is the reason I got a Nokia E71 for my wife, which she loves.  I rarely make any purchasing decision without checking user experiences on forums.

 

I applaud Nokia for responding on forums, however statements should at least be correct.  Blanket dismissals only worsen the problem.

 

I strongly suggest Nokia re-adjust this attitude and re-consider their refusal to participate in Whirlpool as well.

 

Companies, Internode being a prime example, who actively contribute to forums, develop cult like followings.  Those that don't, become just another commodity like potatoes in a supermarket purchased by the kilo.  I fear Nokia is going down this path.

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Counsellor
Posts: 37

Re: Nokia obituary


Eustace wrote:
I'm struck by the apt title of this thread. We seem to be grieving for the loss of something dear to us, or (in other threads) feel betrayed, as if spurned by a lover and feeling at a loss.

Spot on, that's how I feel.  I do feel cheated, it feels like contempt.  Customers do develop an attachment to brand and can feel very hurt and let down by displays of contempt and disregard.  Nokia's brand value will sink like a ship until they lift their game.

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Counsellor
Posts: 37

Re: Nokia obituary


michaels wrote:

 

Users who wish only to complain about Nokia Products and services are welcome to contact Nokia Care directly, and not to spoil this forum for those for whom it was created. Nobody is obliged to kiss Nokia's backside, but you are expected to treat the company, this community and the members of this community with due respect.


Um yeah... I tried that, the Nokia Attitude extends all the way to the <chuckle> 'Care' centres.  My N95 screen was cracked after a repair.  I emailed the care centre, which btw is a nightmare to find the details for, and naturally, not a single response, ever, after several attempts, after several months.

 

The theory espoused above would work well, if anyone ever actually got a response.

 

Nokia would do itself a great favour by just admitting it stuffed up and its working hard to fix issues and reclaim trust.

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Sage
Posts: 87

Re: Nokia obituary

[ Edited ]

micheals wrote: 

"Users who wish only to complain about Nokia Products and services are welcome to contact Nokia Care directly, and not to spoil this forum for those for whom it was created. Nobody is obliged to kiss Nokia's backside, but you are expected to treat the company, this community and the members of this community with due respect."

 

Hmmm. Really? 

 

Well, for your information, I have contacted my regional Customer Care Support and their response? They told me to go online and upgrade the phone's software.

 

Hang on, just a slight problem with that suggestion - there is no new software to download. Brilliant suggestion. This is straight from the horses mouth. I'm being by Nokia to go and get something they know is not there. How absurd. I emailed them back and pointed out the slight glitch in their cunning plan, as of yet, there is no cunning Plan B

 

This is the level of Customer Care executed by Nokia - and you Nokia backside kissers wonder why we come on here and complain?

 

Doomed. We're all doomed.

Message Edited by nottmbantam on 05-Nov-2009 09:59 AM
Silver Nokia E72-1 UK
RM 530
FW: v31.023
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Ex-Administrator (Retired)
vandelay
Posts: 3,017

Re: Nokia obituary

Hi all,

 

@getyouractogether: I'm sorry if you felt that I was dismissing anybody who has been complaining about their N97 here. In my post in September I continued that

 

"There are hundreds of millions of Nokia users around the world -  a few N97 owners as well I'm sure - who are perfectly happy with their phones and never bother to visit this forum to tell us about it.

 

This comment was not really related to any discussions about the N97 but the nature of this forum in general. I can assure you that Nokia takes all problems that are reported here seriously, but you won't get the full picture of any product just from a support forum."

 

@iannicholson: I'm sorry if you haven't been getting proper service from Nokia Care in Australia. The only options that I can suggest is that if you are not happy with a Nokia product - and certainly if you think that it was advertised incorrectly - you can take the product back to the retailer and use any consumer rights in your country to get a satisfactory resolution to your issue. You can also call Nokia Care in Australia and state that you wish to make a formal complaint. That should escalate the issue and get you in touch with people who are able to look into and solve your issue, and discuss it with you personally in detail.

 

We in the Nokia Support Discussions team, so us who run this peer-to-peer support forum, are not able to look into or respond to any individual issues related to Nokia devices or getting them repaired anywhere in the world. If the issue affects a lot of people, we will certainly do our best to make sure that the issues and discussions here are heard by the right organizations and people around Nokia.

 

But we are not able to guarantee Nokia statements or comments to anything that is discussed here, unless one is officially provided by Nokia. Some of the Nokia employees who have registered here have been discussing some of the issues related to the N97 here. One hot topic about the N97 is the schedule for the rest of the 2.0 software versions. At the moment, there is no public schedule for the next releases. To my understanding, new versions for new product codes are released daily. The Software Update team is aware of the discussions here and they certainly are aware that a lot of you are waiting for the update for your country or operator variant.

 

The fact that discussions like the one in this thread are visible on official Nokia websites around the world should show that we in the Discussions team are not censoring any problematic issues, and we want to offer you a channel to tell what's on your mind. We only remove posts that we think are clearly violating our guidelines (in the four years that Nokia Support Discussions has existed, the number of removed posts has been less than 2% of the posts made here. And a lot of that is just usual forum spam.)

 

There are tens of millions of people visiting this forum per year, and we who run this forum are simply not able to promise that we could personally serve all of you. This is what Nokia Care contact centers are for. Nokia provides phone and email support for (I'm guessing) over 100 countries in dozens of languages, and there are hundreds of people whose job it is to make sure that you get the best possible service and help for your Nokia products and services.

 

And if their service is not good enough, and especially if you don't get any replies although one was promised, just call them again and make a complaint. Same goes for Nokia Care service points: if you think that they didn't serve you well enough, call Nokia Care and make a complaint.

 

I hope this helps - you're always welcome to contact me personally via email at support.discussions@nokia.com to discuss this forum and any ways how we can improve it.

 

Best regards,

Juha-Matti Heikkinen  / vandelay

 


I wrote all my posts from 2005-2011 as an "Admin" for this community. I still work for Nokia as an external consultant, so my rank in all posts is now "Employee".
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Sage
Posts: 87

Re: Nokia obituary

vandelay

 

Thank you.

 

That is the first , and most reasonable reply I have read so far from a Nokia representative, actually showing some understanding from the consumer's perspective. Most of the usual replies from the moderators threaten with deletion and bannings, in my view indicating a total lack of skills in tact, diplomacy and the negotiation department, as well as total lack of understanding of what the consumer may be experiencing. I am pleased that you have not ventured down those paths.

 

In respect of contacting Customer Care, I have emailed them back and stated that I want to make a complaint - but have had no reply. What are the options open to me seeing as I cannot get them to reply to me? Their opening hours for telephone calls are very restrictive, as those are the times I am at work, which make it very difficult to call.

 

Any suggestions greatly appreciated. 

Silver Nokia E72-1 UK
RM 530
FW: v31.023
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Counsellor
Posts: 37

Re: Nokia obituary


vandelay wrote:

Hi all,

 

@getyouractogether: I'm sorry if you felt that I was dismissing anybody who has been complaining about their N97 here. In my post in September I continued that

 

"There are hundreds of millions of Nokia users around the world -  a few N97 owners as well I'm sure - who are perfectly happy with their phones and never bother to visit this forum to tell us about it.

 

This comment was not really related to any discussions about the N97 but the nature of this forum in general. I can assure you that Nokia takes all problems that are reported here seriously, but you won't get the full picture of any product just from a support forum."


 

Best regards,

Juha-Matti Heikkinen  / vandelay

 


<Sigh> - I give up..  Yes - everything is fine - if we're told so.

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Contributor
Posts: 7

Re: Nokia obituary

contact ur local business bureau that handles consumer complaints.
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Sage
Posts: 78

Re: Nokia obituary

Dear Vandelay,

 

"@iannicholson: I'm sorry if you haven't been getting proper service from Nokia Care in Australia. The only options that I can suggest is that if you are not happy with a Nokia product - and certainly if you think that it was advertised incorrectly - you can take the product back to the retailer and use any consumer rights in your country to get a satisfactory resolution to your issue. You can also call Nokia Care in Australia and state that you wish to make a formal complaint. That should escalate the issue and get you in touch with people who are able to look into and solve your issue, and discuss it with you personally in detail." 

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I have had countless conversations with both Nokia and Optus (my service provider) to get some resolution over this ridiculous 'service-provider-authorisation' that now exists for firmware updates. Nokia's stock response was "It's up to Optus". Optus's stock response was "We know nothing about this."

 

The final straw came about a month ago when the new Nokia Messaging was released, which caused it to stop working on my phone, which meant I could no longer receive push emails. I'd put up with the slow (a full minute to load Contacts almost everytime I want to make a call), the daily hangs/crashes (when using Bluetooth especially), but final denial of email was it for me!

 

I took the matter to the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman (www.tio.gov.au) and made my complaint there. Within ONE HOUR of posting the complaint, I received a call from the TIO explaining what would happen next. Within an hour of that call, I had an Optus customer relationship manager on the phone. In the ensuing 48 hours, he got in touch with the Optus Engineers Department, and ANYONE that might have to deal with Nokia at a technical level.

 

The net result? No-one at Optus understands what the process is or requires. Optus were VERY gracious, offering me a contract termination with no charges, or a new handset of my choice - ANY from the range on offer at Optus - without having to resort to a new plan, just continue with the existing plan and ditch the N96.

 

I went with the latter plan, and now have a lovely new, although sadly, non-Nokia handset.

 

I tried hard - VERY hard - to elicit some response from Nokia these last 12 months to no avail. It saddens me, really, that after some 17 years of using Nokia handsets, I have now left the fold. 

 

The way I see it, if you're EVER going to see me as a customer again (and I think I speak for quite a few people on these boards as well), Nokia needs to address the following, and do so URGENTLY!:-

 

1) Stop using cheap, outsourced labour to develop your firmware. As a software development manager of 25 years experience, I can tell you - it shows.

2) If your retailer/service provider partners need to be involved in any process regarding fimware updates, TELL THEM! And then inform all your local staff of who the point of contact is for any service provider so they can send customers their way. One of my biggest gripes was, when talking to Nokia, asking WHO I need to speak to at Optus. Nobody knew!

3) Reel in the number of handsets you're developing. Having more than a dozen handsets on offer (Jacks of All-Trades and frankly, Masters of None) do NOT impress your customers and do not do you any favours. Most of your key competitors ship fewer than 6 models at any one time.

4) Take a lesson or two from your competitors. More frequent firmware updates prove you are willing to listen to customers and make improvements. Even if an update contains just one or two bug fixes, it shows you care! The N96 has had just TWO major releases in 2009 (neither of which were available to Asia-Pac customers). It gives the perception you DON'T care.

5) Get some REAL quality control personnel - stop using your customers for this important job!

6) Consider adding an Android OS-based phone to your line-up. Frankly, while on paper Symbian should be better, it just doesn't cut it against Apple's iPhone OS.

7) Take a leaf out of Richard Branson's philosophy - customer experience is everything! Blow your customers away with the service and even if the product is a little slipshod, they will forgive you and come back. Remember, a company is never judged by how well it does when things go right, but how it responds when things go wrong. Nokia has fallen down seriously here.

 

Well, I think I have said enough. Once again, thank you for your reply and I urge you to pass this message on to your superiors at Nokia. If I could send it to the CEO myself, I would.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Ian Nicholson

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ian Nicholson
Poor Sod/N96 Owner
------------------------------------
Nokia: Connecting People... with iPhones.
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Counsellor
Posts: 35

Re: Nokia obituary

[ Edited ]

You can email him here:-

 

Greigster

 

Email add removed.

Message Edited by alphaman on 10-Nov-2009 02:43 AM
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Contributor
RockerD
Posts: 8

Re: Nokia obituary

Dear Nokia
First of all I would like to thank Nokia representatives who had time to respond to this post,
I do have to agree (Although I was very happy with the last NSU v2 for N97) that N97 seems to lagging behind even though it s the flagship of Nokia (Currently) ,
I m a Nokia user for the last 6 years (1100,7650,3650,3230,3250,5610,N97) and now I feel like I m not getting what I want for being a loyal customer, From what I gathered in this post most of the users are N96 or N97, so Nokia this is your top of the range customers (after 8800 series), me being employed in a customer service oriented organization we make sure that our best customers are satisfied because their loyalty to our products is far more important than our organization itself, we cannot forget that it’s because of these users that we thrive to be the best in the industry (Forgive me for not mentioning my Organization),
I have been going through the discussions for the last two months and I see a perpetual rise in complains in various number topics, But bottom line of each topic seems to be Nokia Loyal Customers being hurt or disappointed,
I m sure your Customer Service is trying their best to meet every Nokia consumer requirement but it does not seems to enough, I like my Nokia very much but I m having my share of issues with my product as well along with others who are in this post, For example, My navigation was working fine before the V2 upgrade but now I m having issues finding a GPS fix, before the fw update the Navigation helped me a lot to find my way (Note I m a ex-pat living in Riyadh),
I would not give up hope on the N97 for now but wish Nokia will opt for a another fw update to fix these new issues and other issues which were there from day 1,
N900 seems to the next flagship and I hope that it’s a well tested device before hitting the market as I believe N97 was not tested enough,And yes you do have to rethink about your R&D since you’ll are losing the ground faster than your gaining,

Regards
Darshana





N97
RM-505
v 20.0.019
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Counsellor
Posts: 34

Re: Nokia obituary

@Rocker D

 

I agree with you on most things you say.

 

Only thing i disagree about is the N900 being the new flagship.

 

Today a phone will need certain features to be able to be called a flagship.

 

One of the most important thing almost all of nokia's competitors flagship phones has is a capacitive touchscreen and as far as i am told the N900 will still be using the old pisspoor and technologically obsolete resistive touch screen.


This fact is actually a great indicator on how bad nokia's has become...Several years after the iphone sported capacitive touch, nokia is still not able to deliver a capacitive touch screen phone.

 

I think the X6 will have capacitive touch but that phone is not touted to be the flagship, that is still N97 / N900 ..

 

Xsatquest

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